Dura-Ace R9200

[BigBoyND]

Rotor would be a good option if their axle wasn't so heavy (vs SRAM, Specialized, Cannondale, etc)

[rollinslow]

I see standard road and offset road axle in Rotor's website for Aldhu Carbon. I suppose one of them is 46mm. How do I know which one to choose for my bike?

Disc brake and you go for 46mm.

I think Rotor was really aiming to use the offset axle with GRX so you can get the chainline outboard and have no issues using the GRX front derailleur. With disc axles we are finally seeing the chainline move outboard more. New DA9200 moved it out 1mm (44.5mm from 43.5mm). Campy is the issue here with design. H11 crank was 44.5mm but 12s cranks are 43.5mm. On Shimano you could use a few shims but with Campy the hirth joint and BB assembly prevents you from the option. The Aldhu seems like an excellent crank.

[wickedstealthy]

Deleted

[wheelsONfire]

I can just say, i had UL 6800 crank on my UP, same standard as current frames and it threw chain off like crazy.
I ordered a custom made spider for Easton EC90SL crank. This made chainline 46-47mm. No chain is thrown off now.
So i guess that a wider chainline is just for the better with through axle systems.

[mapaha2810]

Not sure whether this has been discussed already, but I calculated the price for ordering the single parts instead of the "priority packs" / full group set packages (from German shops):

Ultegra:
ST-R8170 + BR-R8170 front + rear incl. hoses (from Rose): 799,90 €
RD-R8150 (from Rose): 339,95 €
FD-R8150 (bike-discount or R2-bike): 199 €
FC-R8100 (from Rose): 259,95 €
BT-DN300 (from Rose): 149,95 €
CS-R8100 (from Rose): 93,95 €
XT CN-M8100 (from bike-discount): 36,99 €
EW-EC300 Charging Cable (from Rose): 39,95 €

= 1.919,64 €

Not included in the full groupset packages:
EW-SD300-I (e. g. 600mm + 1200mm from Rose): 47,90 €
XT RT-MT800 (2x 160mm from Rose): 79,90 €
SM-BB72 (e.g. from Rose): 24,95 €


Dura Ace:
ST-R9270 + BR-R9270 front + rear incl. hoses (from R2-bike): 1159 €
RD-R9250 (from Rose): 699,95 €
FD-R9150 (from Rose): 399,95 €
FC-R9200 (from bike-discount): 519 €
BT-DN300 (from Rose): 149,95 €
CS-R9200 (from bike-discount): 299 €
XTR CN-M9100 (from bike-discount): 59,99 €
EW-EC300 Charging Cable (from Rose): 39,95 €

= 3.326,79 €

For both the Ultegra and Dura Ace a big gap compared to the full groupset packages. Am I missing something? All Ultegra parts I ordered from Rose have an estimated delivery date within this year. I am only waiting for the ST-R9270 + BR-R9270 sets to save some weight and the Ultegra FD (because that is the only part I did not find for pre-order anywhere in Germany for 199 €...). If the advantage of those full groupset packages is really only that the delivery date may be one or two month earlier, I am fine with waiting instead of wasting 400-700 Euros

[wheelsONfire]

Not sure whether this has been discussed already, but I calculated the price for ordering the single parts instead of the "priority packs" / full group set packages (from German shops):

Ultegra:
ST-R8170 + BR-R8170 front + rear incl. hoses (from Rose): 799,90 €
RD-R8150 (from Rose): 339,95 €
FD-R8150 (bike-discount or R2-bike): 199 €
FC-R8100 (from Rose): 259,95 €
BT-DN300 (from Rose): 149,95 €
CS-R8100 (from Rose): 93,95 €
XT CN-M8100 (from bike-discount): 36,99 €
EW-EC300 Charging Cable (from Rose): 39,95 €

= 1.919,64 €

Not included in the full groupset packages:
EW-SD300-I (e. g. 600mm + 1200mm from Rose): 47,90 €
XT RT-MT800 (2x 160mm from Rose): 79,90 €
SM-BB72 (e.g. from Rose): 24,95 €


Dura Ace:
ST-R9270 + BR-R9270 front + rear incl. hoses (from R2-bike): 1159 €
RD-R9250 (from Rose): 699,95 €
FD-R9150 (from Rose): 399,95 €
FC-R9200 (from bike-discount): 519 €
BT-DN300 (from Rose): 149,95 €
CS-R9200 (from bike-discount): 299 €
XTR CN-M9100 (from bike-discount): 59,99 €
EW-EC300 Charging Cable (from Rose): 39,95 €

= 3.326,79 €

For both the Ultegra and Dura Ace a big gap compared to the full groupset packages. Am I missing something? All Ultegra parts I ordered from Rose have an estimated delivery date within this year. I am only waiting for the ST-R9270 + BR-R9270 sets to save some weight and the Ultegra FD (because that is the only part I did not find for pre-order anywhere in Germany for 199 €...). If the advantage of those full groupset packages is really only that the delivery date may be one or two month earlier, I am fine with waiting instead of wasting 400-700 Euros

I haven't checked, so i might be off... But wasn't the DA disc brake caliper different from the UL version?
I guess i would pick UL shifters (pending on if body is same design on both UL and DA?), FD and RD.
DA calipers, chain and perhaps cassette.
Battery is same.

For crank i would pick something not Shimano.

[mapaha2810]

I haven't checked, so i might be off... But wasn't the DA disc brake caliper different from the UL version?
I guess i would pick UL shifters (pending on if body is same design on both UL and DA?), FD and RD.
DA calipers, chain and perhaps cassette.
Battery is same.

For crank i would pick something not Shimano.

both the DA calipers and the shifters are different. Together they save 93g over UL. Regarding the look I think it'll look fine with the UL front and rear derailleur.

Regarding the crank I am not sure whether something like Rotor Aldhu, Easton EC90 etc will work well because of the chainline?! Shimano changed the chainline to 44.5mm (see some posts above). I'd rather go for the cheap UL crankset for now and once there is proof which light alternative (with PM) works well with Shimano 12s I can still upgrade

DA cassette significantly saves weight, but I am riding so much that I will never be willing to pay 300 Euro for a wear part

My question rather concerned the price gap between ordering single parts and the groupset. But I don't recognize any missing part in my calculations

[pmprego]

I haven't checked, so i might be off... But wasn't the DA disc brake caliper different from the UL version?
I guess i would pick UL shifters (pending on if body is same design on both UL and DA?), FD and RD.
DA calipers, chain and perhaps cassette.
Battery is same.

For crank i would pick something not Shimano.

Totally this!! Most of the weight is in the calipers, cassette and yes, the shiffters. Nonetheless, the shifters price jump is significant while the other 3 mentioned not that huge.

And definitely not shimano crank. If you wanna go ww go for the new fsa carbon cranks with cnc machined rings. According to them 557gr for a full 53/39 crankset (which is more than 200gr lighter than DA).

But you did your due diligence so i guess you have already weighted pros and cons.

[mapaha2810]

But you did your due diligence so i guess you have already weighted pros and cons.

I totally get the point regarding the cassette and the crankset. But regarding the cassette, I am not willing to pay 300 Euro for a wear part (that I'll need to switch every 1,5-2 years)

Regarding the crankset: are you sure the existing 43.5mm alternatives will work well with Shimano 12s? I think there's some reason they changed the chainline to 44.5mm. That is why I would go for the cheap UL crankset first and once there are alternatives that have proven to work well I would upgrade. But I am open for any good advice on this - I am really not an expert regarding crankset measurements

[BigBoyND]

Totally this!! Most of the weight is in the calipers, cassette and yes, the shiffters. Nonetheless, the shifters price jump is significant while the other 3 mentioned not that huge.

And definitely not shimano crank. If you wanna go ww go for the new fsa carbon cranks with cnc machined rings. According to them 557gr for a full 53/39 crankset (which is more than 200gr lighter than DA).

But you did your due diligence so i guess you have already weighted pros and cons.

At US retail price, the shifter upgrade costs/savings is $5/gram vs $8.5-9.5/g for the derailleurs. Cassette is best one-time value around $2.7-3.3/gram depending on size. As mentioned above, it will eventually need to be replaced, so you can multiply that number by how many cassettes you expect to wear out throughout the lifetime of your groupset.

[wheelsONfire]

But you did your due diligence so i guess you have already weighted pros and cons.

I totally get the point regarding the cassette and the crankset. But regarding the cassette, I am not willing to pay 300 Euro for a wear part (that I'll need to switch every 1,5-2 years)

Regarding the crankset: are you sure the existing 43.5mm alternatives will work well with Shimano 12s? I think there's some reason they changed the chainline to 44.5mm. That is why I would go for the cheap UL crankset first and once there are alternatives that have proven to work well I would upgrade. But I am open for any good advice on this - I am really not an expert regarding crankset measurements

I can tell, i ride 6870 on my UP. It's a through axle bike. Original chainline on UL crank is 43.5mm and it was huge problem with chain getting thrown off.
I bought a custom made spider and Easton EC90 crank to get a chainline of 46-47mm. No more chain thrown off, shifting is superb.
This bike see alot of harsh riding. You mentioned Shimano moved chainline from 43.5mm to 44.5mm now.
You can most likely use almost any new crankset with new Shimano. But sure, if you are hellbent to Shimano, go for it.
I would certainly not hesitate to go for ex FSA. Actually use FSA crank and FSA WE chain on my Etap. To be honest, it shifts better than Srams own Red and standard Red chain. Also, way more silent (WE chain over Sram chain)

[pmprego]

But you did your due diligence so i guess you have already weighted pros and cons.

I totally get the point regarding the cassette and the crankset. But regarding the cassette, I am not willing to pay 300 Euro for a wear part (that I'll need to switch every 1,5-2 years)

Regarding the crankset: are you sure the existing 43.5mm alternatives will work well with Shimano 12s? I think there's some reason they changed the chainline to 44.5mm. That is why I would go for the cheap UL crankset first and once there are alternatives that have proven to work well I would upgrade. But I am open for any good advice on this - I am really not an expert regarding crankset measurements

I think going UL first is very reasonable indeed.

I get the wearable argument but if one is to be rational there is no good reason to move to any DA part. You can always get that DA cassette just for those special ocasions

[satanas]

I ordered a custom made spider for Easton EC90SL crank. This made chainline 46-47mm. No chain is thrown off now.

Can you tell us where this spider came from please? Thanks!

[ullmanz]

Not sure whether this has been discussed already, but I calculated the price for ordering the single parts instead of the "priority packs" / full group set packages (from German shops):

Ultegra:
ST-R8170 + BR-R8170 front + rear incl. hoses (from Rose): 799,90 €
RD-R8150 (from Rose): 339,95 €
FD-R8150 (bike-discount or R2-bike): 199 €
FC-R8100 (from Rose): 259,95 €
BT-DN300 (from Rose): 149,95 €
CS-R8100 (from Rose): 93,95 €
XT CN-M8100 (from bike-discount): 36,99 €
EW-EC300 Charging Cable (from Rose): 39,95 €

= 1.919,64 €

Not included in the full groupset packages:
EW-SD300-I (e. g. 600mm + 1200mm from Rose): 47,90 €
XT RT-MT800 (2x 160mm from Rose): 79,90 €
SM-BB72 (e.g. from Rose): 24,95 €


Dura Ace:
ST-R9270 + BR-R9270 front + rear incl. hoses (from R2-bike): 1159 €
RD-R9250 (from Rose): 699,95 €
FD-R9150 (from Rose): 399,95 €
FC-R9200 (from bike-discount): 519 €
BT-DN300 (from Rose): 149,95 €
CS-R9200 (from bike-discount): 299 €
XTR CN-M9100 (from bike-discount): 59,99 €
EW-EC300 Charging Cable (from Rose): 39,95 €

= 3.326,79 €

For both the Ultegra and Dura Ace a big gap compared to the full groupset packages. Am I missing something? All Ultegra parts I ordered from Rose have an estimated delivery date within this year. I am only waiting for the ST-R9270 + BR-R9270 sets to save some weight and the Ultegra FD (because that is the only part I did not find for pre-order anywhere in Germany for 199 €...). If the advantage of those full groupset packages is really only that the delivery date may be one or two month earlier, I am fine with waiting instead of wasting 400-700 Euros

This just made me question my order of the old 11s groupset.
I could just order all the pieces single, wait a little longer, spend 100-200 Euro more, but have the latest groupset.
Before I thought I was saving 700 Euros...

[Hexsense]

If you need a slightly wider chainline with power meter, an easy option is Sram Quarq Dub 5 bolt 110bcd.
It's 45mm chainline. In fact, Dzero pre-dub is also 45mm.
Sram 5 bolt 110bcd has been on 45mm chainline for a long time, even before disc era. It helped them reduce the chance of chain caught the big ring in small-small cross chain setting. One of the selling point for Sram Red 22 was that it can use the entire 22 gears without FD trim or chain rub anywhere.

Sram Force Wide even push it out to 47.5mm, which is a little much IMO.