Dura-Ace R9200

[gSporco]

Anyone compare the XTR vs XT chains? Is it really worht the extra money for the XTR 9100 12sp chain?

I have used both, go with the XT, great value, great performance. XTR will save a few grams, but shifting performance is identical in my experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you

[stevec1975]

Anyone interested in different cassette ratios, Recon are doing a Shimano 12 speed compatible monoblock in 11-29 and 11-32:

https://www.dulight.fr/en/roadgravel/18 ... o-12s.html

[ryanw]

The 11-28 cassette has been removed from the Shimano website.
I wonder if they're not going ahead with its production?

[robbosmans]

Haven’t seen a single one on pro bikes either, probably not going to happen anymore

[Requiem84]

On a Dutch cycling podcast someone from Shimano was saying that some pro's were really happy with the 11-34 cassette, he specifically mentioned Kasper Asgreen, who according to him had been using the 11-34 cassette for the entire spring season and really liked it. Most likely most pro's also like the 11-30 then, maybe because it gives them a bit more range when they're in the big ring?

[petromyzon]

Anyone compare the XTR vs XT chains? Is it really worht the extra money for the XTR 9100 12sp chain?

I have used both, go with the XT, great value, great performance. XTR will save a few grams, but shifting performance is identical in my experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The top end chain has the sil-tec coating which is supposed to reduce friction and contamination build up. If true it's the only part of XTR or DA that offers a peformance benefit.

[Ritxis]

Anyone compare the XTR vs XT chains? Is it really worht the extra money for the XTR 9100 12sp chain?

I have used both, go with the XT, great value, great performance. XTR will save a few grams, but shifting performance is identical in my experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The top end chain has the sil-tec coating which is supposed to reduce friction and contamination build up. If true it's the only part of XTR or DA that offers a peformance benefit.

the other 12s Shiamano chains, like the previous hg901/701/601 have Sil-Tec............I doubt that removing the weight, the Xtr/DA will offer more performance

[gSporco]

Anyone compare the XTR vs XT chains? Is it really worht the extra money for the XTR 9100 12sp chain?

I have used both, go with the XT, great value, great performance. XTR will save a few grams, but shifting performance is identical in my experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The top end chain has the sil-tec coating which is supposed to reduce friction and contamination build up. If true it's the only part of XTR or DA that offers a peformance benefit.

Unless Im a complete idiot.. I find the Shimano website less than intuitive to navigate. I can see on their individual products pages what the specs are, but they always seems to leave out 50%. The other 50% is derived from you all knowing the minutia that I wanted to read on my own via the site.. Dont get me started locating the appropriate manuals for Shimano parts on their site.. Its like querying old SQL GUI from 1996 lol. Sram definitely has the upper hand in user interface, communication and information etc.. or at least I can get all the info I need from Srams site when I look.

But I digress.. Ill try the XT chain, I already have the XTR chain, but require 2 so I can rotate my waxed/re-Waxing

[petromyzon]

Apologies, Ritxis is correct.
I was sure FrictionFacts or ZFC had tested DA as faster than Ultegra, but I may have been mistaken. Agree weight will make no difference.

[BdaGhisallo]

Anyone compare the XTR vs XT chains? Is it really worht the extra money for the XTR 9100 12sp chain?

I have used both, go with the XT, great value, great performance. XTR will save a few grams, but shifting performance is identical in my experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The top end chain has the sil-tec coating which is supposed to reduce friction and contamination build up. If true it's the only part of XTR or DA that offers a peformance benefit.

Unless Im a complete idiot.. I find the Shimano website less than intuitive to navigate. I can see on their individual products pages what the specs are, but they always seems to leave out 50%. The other 50% is derived from you all knowing the minutia that I wanted to read on my own via the site.. Dont get me started locating the appropriate manuals for Shimano parts on their site.. Its like querying old SQL GUI from 1996 lol. Sram definitely has the upper hand in user interface, communication and information etc.. or at least I can get all the info I need from Srams site when I look.

But I digress.. Ill try the XT chain, I already have the XTR chain, but require 2 so I can rotate my waxed/re-Waxing

For tech docs, start here https://si.shimano.com/#/ and enter the series number of the part you are looking for info on.

For instance, here's what there is on DA 9200: https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Keyword?name=9200

The results show the Dealer Manual, User Manual and the Exploded View of the components

[petromyzon]

From a superb Dave Rome article on Cyclingtips (there is a difference, it's not SilTec):
-snip~
Worth spending more? A case of Shimano 105 vs Ultegra vs Dura-Ace

Mixing and matching of components across different model levels is nothing new, but only recently did I hear an employee of Shimano state that if there’s one part you should spend more on, it’s the chain.

With increasingly prevalent low-friction coatings and expected improvements to material tolerances with each bump up in price, Shimano chains do show some improvements in durability as the price goes up – at least to a point. These coatings also help to explain why Kerin experienced a progressive ramp-up of wear rates on cheaper models of chains – likely the result of increased material friction once the coatings had worn away. As Kerin suggests, it’s these cheaper chains that are more likely to damage your drivetrain components through unexpected wear.

At least for Shimano, the efficiency does improve as you spend more. CeramicSpeed’s data is a little dated in this area, but they suggest there’s an approximate half a watt difference (again, at 250W, 90 rpm) between Ultegra and Dura-Ace chains.

And as mentioned before, the hollow pins found on the Dura-Ace chain are not simply about weight savings — they result in a stronger rivet.

That all said, Kerin’s data does suggest the Shimano Ultegra HG-701 11-speed chain offers better durability over the more expensive Dura-Ace HG-901 model. There are a few factors here, but it comes down to the fact that Kerin’s sample set of Ultegra chains was vastly larger than that of the Dura-Ace. And where the Dura-Ace 11-speed posted better elongation wear numbers, it fell short with the digital chain checker (roller play and wear).

This is explained by the Dura-Ace chain sample coming out of the box with a measured .12mm “wear” on the KMC digital chain checker, whereas the batch of Ultegra chains started at .05/.06mm measurable “wear”. Keep in mind that Kerin’s test considers .5mm to be worn out, and so .12mm is almost a quarter of the allowable wear allowance. Kerin believes this is a batch variance, and that it’s quite possible (even likely) the Dura-Ace chain can offer improved durability.

Given all of this, and to a point, it makes financial and performance sense to spend a little more and get the better chain – even if it’s just for peace of mind through not having to check wear quite as often. The same applies to those using Campagnolo chains or SRAM Red AXS, while SRAM Eagle 12-speed users are likely best off choosing the second-tier “Hard Chrome” X01 chain which tested to be equally durable and faster compared to its more expensive (but arguably better-looking) XX1 sibling.

[gSporco]

From a superb Dave Rome article on Cyclingtips (there is a difference, it's not SilTec):
-snip~
Worth spending more? A case of Shimano 105 vs Ultegra vs Dura-Ace

Mixing and matching of components across different model levels is nothing new, but only recently did I hear an employee of Shimano state that if there’s one part you should spend more on, it’s the chain.

With increasingly prevalent low-friction coatings and expected improvements to material tolerances with each bump up in price, Shimano chains do show some improvements in durability as the price goes up – at least to a point. These coatings also help to explain why Kerin experienced a progressive ramp-up of wear rates on cheaper models of chains – likely the result of increased material friction once the coatings had worn away. As Kerin suggests, it’s these cheaper chains that are more likely to damage your drivetrain components through unexpected wear.

At least for Shimano, the efficiency does improve as you spend more. CeramicSpeed’s data is a little dated in this area, but they suggest there’s an approximate half a watt difference (again, at 250W, 90 rpm) between Ultegra and Dura-Ace chains.

And as mentioned before, the hollow pins found on the Dura-Ace chain are not simply about weight savings — they result in a stronger rivet.

That all said, Kerin’s data does suggest the Shimano Ultegra HG-701 11-speed chain offers better durability over the more expensive Dura-Ace HG-901 model. There are a few factors here, but it comes down to the fact that Kerin’s sample set of Ultegra chains was vastly larger than that of the Dura-Ace. And where the Dura-Ace 11-speed posted better elongation wear numbers, it fell short with the digital chain checker (roller play and wear).

This is explained by the Dura-Ace chain sample coming out of the box with a measured .12mm “wear” on the KMC digital chain checker, whereas the batch of Ultegra chains started at .05/.06mm measurable “wear”. Keep in mind that Kerin’s test considers .5mm to be worn out, and so .12mm is almost a quarter of the allowable wear allowance. Kerin believes this is a batch variance, and that it’s quite possible (even likely) the Dura-Ace chain can offer improved durability.

Given all of this, and to a point, it makes financial and performance sense to spend a little more and get the better chain – even if it’s just for peace of mind through not having to check wear quite as often. The same applies to those using Campagnolo chains or SRAM Red AXS, while SRAM Eagle 12-speed users are likely best off choosing the second-tier “Hard Chrome” X01 chain which tested to be equally durable and faster compared to its more expensive (but arguably better-looking) XX1 sibling.

Interesting read.. thank you.

Ill still try the XT chain and compare it every few months with my XTR chain.. I basically rotate them every 500 miles for a rewax and use Silca Drip wax in between to top off..

[gSporco]

I have used both, go with the XT, great value, great performance. XTR will save a few grams, but shifting performance is identical in my experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The top end chain has the sil-tec coating which is supposed to reduce friction and contamination build up. If true it's the only part of XTR or DA that offers a peformance benefit.

Unless Im a complete idiot.. I find the Shimano website less than intuitive to navigate. I can see on their individual products pages what the specs are, but they always seems to leave out 50%. The other 50% is derived from you all knowing the minutia that I wanted to read on my own via the site.. Dont get me started locating the appropriate manuals for Shimano parts on their site.. Its like querying old SQL GUI from 1996 lol. Sram definitely has the upper hand in user interface, communication and information etc.. or at least I can get all the info I need from Srams site when I look.

But I digress.. Ill try the XT chain, I already have the XTR chain, but require 2 so I can rotate my waxed/re-Waxing

For tech docs, start here https://si.shimano.com/#/ and enter the series number of the part you are looking for info on.

For instance, here's what there is on DA 9200: https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Keyword?name=9200

The results show the Dealer Manual, User Manual and the Exploded View of the components

Thank you! Im installing U12 next week, so Ill read up and see what to look out for.. Ive built and ridden Sram AXS for the last 3 years.. curious to see how the install compares to the uber simplicity of AXS.

[BdaGhisallo]

The top end chain has the sil-tec coating which is supposed to reduce friction and contamination build up. If true it's the only part of XTR or DA that offers a peformance benefit.

Unless Im a complete idiot.. I find the Shimano website less than intuitive to navigate. I can see on their individual products pages what the specs are, but they always seems to leave out 50%. The other 50% is derived from you all knowing the minutia that I wanted to read on my own via the site.. Dont get me started locating the appropriate manuals for Shimano parts on their site.. Its like querying old SQL GUI from 1996 lol. Sram definitely has the upper hand in user interface, communication and information etc.. or at least I can get all the info I need from Srams site when I look.

But I digress.. Ill try the XT chain, I already have the XTR chain, but require 2 so I can rotate my waxed/re-Waxing

For tech docs, start here https://si.shimano.com/#/ and enter the series number of the part you are looking for info on.

For instance, here's what there is on DA 9200: https://si.shimano.com/#/en/search/Keyword?name=9200

The results show the Dealer Manual, User Manual and the Exploded View of the components

You'll probably just want to download the Dealer Manual for each thing you're installing. The User Manuals are mostly just fluff.
Thank you! Im installing U12 next week, so Ill read up and see what to look out for.. Ive built and ridden Sram AXS for the last 3 years.. curious to see how the install compares to the uber simplicity of AXS.

[MattBeOne]

Can anyone point out how to adjust the free stroke for the 12sp Shimano groupsets?
Can't seem to find anything online...