Dura-Ace R9200

[bananastand]

...

[TobinHatesYou]

Bro. The 12 speed freehub is very obviously cut out of an HG hub. A 12 speed cassette will not work on an HG freehub because it needs the female cutouts of the new 12 speed freehub body.

Are you blind?

It turns out we were both half right.

Anyway I think I fully understand the nature of the design now. It is a modified MicroSpline design and will be conditionally compatible with the MTB cassettes w/10t cogs (plus future GRX and road 10-XXt cassettes.)

So here's how I think it'll go...


12spd road freehub-short, likely replaces MicroSpline:
MicroSpline cassette compatible (all splines engaged)
DA 12spd cassette compatible (paired splines engaged)

HG
12spd compatible

Lockrings will be specific to each freehub.

[pdlpsher1]

I'm with pdlpsher1 on this. Though the colored drawing is causing confusion. You should have colored the hub side, not the cassette side. As shown, it proves why 11sp cassettes won't work on 12sp hubs.

If you fill on the empty female splines on the hub, it looks like an HG hub. So an HG hub should be able to take a 12sp casette.

Most important point in this: we don't need to upgrade our wheels!

Thanks! I redid the drawing. Black = 11-speed HG freehub. Red = 12-speed cassette splines.

I won't take credit on this since OOO was the one who gave out the info. The new freehub standard is a significant piece of info. that existing Shimano users would most appreciate!

[JMeinholdt]

XDR is a joke. All of this proprietary nonsense is a joke. The bike industry is going to shit. I guarantee you, there will be ZERO people upgrading to 12 speed dura ace if the interface is proprietary. There is NOTHING wrong with HG. Different interfaces for road, MTB and now three drivers for three brands. Like what the *f##k* what a joke. These companies can *f##k* off. Have you shifted AXS before? It's a joke. Nothing will ever top 11 speed dura ace di2. If I want to I can still run 9 speed tiagra on the same bike WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING. It's my right as a consumer. HG doesn't wreck cassettes YOUR SHITTY PEDAL STROKE WRECKS CASSETTES.

It seriously boggles my mind how worked up people get over this.

Don't like the new standard? Don't buy it. Don't like AXS? Don't buy it. And going on about 9 speed Tiagra in a next gen DA thread? Please be kind and rewind the tape in your VCR before you return it to the rental store. You said it yourself, DA 11 speed can't be topped. So clearly Shimano has no need to market to you. Meanwhile, they'll (hopefully) continue to innovate and move the industry forward.

[bananastand]

...

[Discodan]

Bro. The 12 speed freehub is very obviously cut out of an HG hub. A 12 speed cassette will not work on an HG freehub because it needs the female cutouts of the new 12 speed freehub body.

Are you blind?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey "Bro", you might want to chill out a bit there. You're 6 posts in, maybe get to know the lay of the land before handing out insults and pissing people off. Just a suggestion

[bananastand]

...

[Discodan]

Fair point, at least you've kept quiet for most of it

[BigBoyND]

Bro. The 12 speed freehub is very obviously cut out of an HG hub. A 12 speed cassette will not work on an HG freehub because it needs the female cutouts of the new 12 speed freehub body.

Are you blind?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If the "12 speed freehub is very obviously cut out of an HG hub" then very obviously the 12sp cassette will work on an HG hub becasue femaile cutouts can stay empty... See above for the cutouts filled in. This suggests 12sp cassette will work on HG hub but 11sp cassette will not work on the new hub standard.

The only way this will not be the case if the new standard is smaller in diameter and there is a sleeve to go over the new hub standard to convert it to HG, as was discussed earlier in the thread.

[Enveboy]

...
I still think the answer is 34/52 up the front with an 11-25 for most UK riding. Of course going 34/30 makes sense for proper climbs / holidays in the mountains.

I get that this is an old post and the world has moved on, but I am considering going from 36-52 up front to 34-52. (11-30 on the back, 165 crankset.) (live next to the mountains)
How are people finding the FD shifts with the 34-52 combination? Running 9170.

I use a 52/34 front with a 12-25 rear cassette. Works fine, it's isn't as fast shifting as 52/36 but just don't have power down when you change.

[Gazelleer]

The adoption of this new standard by Shimano also means we won't see a 10T cog on a road group anytime soon.

Unless the new road freehub is shorter than HG and the smallest cog is somehow connected to the second-smallest, either permanently or by means of an adapter. Not exactly sure how this would correspond with the stated 11-speed cross-compatibility though. I'd need to have another look at the drawings for that.

[Theguy]

Because I don't have the knowledge about all that electronic stuff but if I was a good engineer I would come to this thread, read all the opinions and create an amazing new group set never seen before.

[Alfus]

Creepy.

Ok then Genius - what's this hypothetical Shimano interface then, exactly the full interface upon the 12spd and for bonus points, the Ultegra 11spd wrapper? Because it sure seems like something already known and liked, yet this type of thinking stifles innovation.

Hypocrisy!!

Defensive much? I didn't like the thought of the XDR driver for AXS at first either. Now I realize it's hands down better than HG. I suppose you really wanted 126mm rear dropouts to stay too because no one would ever need more than a 7 speed cassette and you already had wheels/frames/cassettes that fit?

XDR is a joke. All of this proprietary nonsense is a joke. The bike industry is going to shit. I guarantee you, there will be ZERO people upgrading to 12 speed dura ace if the interface is proprietary. There is NOTHING wrong with HG. Different interfaces for road, MTB and now three drivers for three brands. Like what the *f##k* what a joke. These companies can *f##k* off. Have you shifted AXS before? It's a joke. Nothing will ever top 11 speed dura ace di2. If I want to I can still run 9 speed tiagra on the same bike WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING. It's my right as a consumer. HG doesn't wreck cassettes YOUR SHITTY PEDAL STROKE WRECKS CASSETTES.

[Theguy]

Btw, some people expected to see the new shimano group set during the olympycs or shimano introducing it.

Well, at least is not going to happen during the first day of the olympics.

Any new bet about the date?

[Ritxis]

Btw, some people expected to see the new shimano group set during the olympycs or shimano introducing it.

Well, at least is not going to happen during the first day of the olympics.

Any new bet about the date?

Here in Spain some store says that the end of August, the beginning of September ...to buy and / or order, depending on availability