Diferent wires..
Dura-Ace R9200
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https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/ ... AD305.htmlAlfus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:28 pmDiferent wires..
A bit bulky installation if you don't want to rewire
But yeah you are right, rewiring might be necessary, at least to hide teh adaptors in the frame. But I bet the communication protocol will be the same.
from 10 (Ultegra 6770) to 11 you can only use the shifters and all the wiring...........the rear derailleur no, and only the front derailleur was for a while, with an update the compatibility FD-6770 with the rear deraulleurs of 11 is finished, the fd-6770 did not have the setting top position electrical adjustment
I don't think it is possible to upgrade from 11 to 12 via firmware......maybe Shimano leaves the possibility ??? of using the levers of the groups of 11 with the derailleurs of 12, here is SD50 cable adapter to the new SD300
Ritxis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:52 pmfrom 10 (Ultegra 6770) to 11 you can only use the shifters and all the wiring...........the rear derailleur no, and only the front derailleur was for a while, with an update the compatibility FD-6770 with the rear deraulleurs of 11 is finished, the fd-6770 did not have the setting top position electrical adjustment
I don't think it is possible to upgrade from 11 to 12 via firmware......maybe Shimano leaves the possibility ??? of using the levers of the groups of 11 with the derailleurs of 12, here is SD50 cable adapter to the new SD300
Why? To sell less groups? No way..
yes, but ....... how do you explain that you can set up a group mixing parts of all the e-tube groups ???Alfus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:24 pmRitxis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:52 pmfrom 10 (Ultegra 6770) to 11 you can only use the shifters and all the wiring...........the rear derailleur no, and only the front derailleur was for a while, with an update the compatibility FD-6770 with the rear deraulleurs of 11 is finished, the fd-6770 did not have the setting top position electrical adjustment
I don't think it is possible to upgrade from 11 to 12 via firmware......maybe Shimano leaves the possibility ??? of using the levers of the groups of 11 with the derailleurs of 12, here is SD50 cable adapter to the new SD300
Why? To sell less groups? No way..
shifters 6770, Fd-R8050, Rd-6800.........I have had that combination mounted....
Wouldn't it be another way to expand sales? allow the use of current shifters with the new derailleurs........
If someone does not want or can buy the entire group and therefore continues as long as possible without renewing and you give them that option, they still make the effort and invest in what is necessary
Sorry, when I said upgrade I meant change the whole derraileurs for the new ones, not to update the FW.Ritxis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:34 pmyes, but ....... how do you explain that you can set up a group mixing parts of all the e-tube groups ???Alfus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:24 pmRitxis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:52 pmfrom 10 (Ultegra 6770) to 11 you can only use the shifters and all the wiring...........the rear derailleur no, and only the front derailleur was for a while, with an update the compatibility FD-6770 with the rear deraulleurs of 11 is finished, the fd-6770 did not have the setting top position electrical adjustment
I don't think it is possible to upgrade from 11 to 12 via firmware......maybe Shimano leaves the possibility ??? of using the levers of the groups of 11 with the derailleurs of 12, here is SD50 cable adapter to the new SD300
Why? To sell less groups? No way..
shifters 6770, Fd-R8050, Rd-6800.........I have had that combination mounted....
Wouldn't it be another way to expand sales? allow the use of current shifters with the new derailleurs........
If someone does not want or can buy the entire group and therefore continues as long as possible without renewing and you give them that option, they still make the effort and invest in what is necessary
I still think that we will see that route of compatibility via cable adaptors.
Macs, and Apple products in general are an American thing. The market share for iPhones, Macs, and everything else Apple does is a lot higher in NA than it is in Europe.ghostinthemachine wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:09 pmFWIW, I know hundreds of people who own Di2 of all generations. Probably count the Mac owners on my fingers and toes. And I'm not from Norfolk.ohexploitable wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:16 pmpeople who buy di2 probably have macs though. i'd even wager that the majority of dura ace di2 owners own macs
I know a good few who don't even own computers.
It is, it's just the wire/plug size that is different.LainOTN wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:09 pmhttps://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/ ... AD305.htmlAlfus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:28 pmDiferent wires..
A bit bulky installation if you don't want to rewire
But yeah you are right, rewiring might be necessary, at least to hide teh adaptors in the frame. But I bet the communication protocol will be the same.
(I built an 8 mtr Di2 'circuit' using EW-SD50 wires and EW-SD300 wires a few months ago)
It's long thread, if I repeat something pls have mercy.
Interesting that main component mising here are the calipiers and rotors (the video states they are xtr rotors). I suspect that the design of the braking system is the root cause in the delay of releasing the new DA group. I will not be surprised if we see some electronic braking control system in the final product. If this happens there will be a wire from the sensor at the caliper and toothed ring on the rotor. The processing will happen the batery/cpu/memory module as previously dicussed.
Interesting that main component mising here are the calipiers and rotors (the video states they are xtr rotors). I suspect that the design of the braking system is the root cause in the delay of releasing the new DA group. I will not be surprised if we see some electronic braking control system in the final product. If this happens there will be a wire from the sensor at the caliper and toothed ring on the rotor. The processing will happen the batery/cpu/memory module as previously dicussed.
There is a patent presenting the brake-by-wire electronic signaling with hydraulic "self contained" calipers. But Alfus confirmed that this is a long term idea not to be seen in this DA iteration.darnold wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:06 pmIt's long thread, if I repeat something pls have mercy.
Interesting that main component mising here are the calipiers and rotors (the video states they are xtr rotors). I suspect that the design of the braking system is the root cause in the delay of releasing the new DA group. I will not be surprised if we see some electronic braking control system in the final product. If this happens there will be a wire from the sensor at the caliper and toothed ring on the rotor. The processing will happen the batery/cpu/memory module as previously dicussed.
In any case Shimano has said that disk brakes is one of the things that they want to improve (usage and mantenaince)
Last edited by LainOTN on Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
where there should be improvements is in the braking system (caliper and shifters) .... where more "complaints" have the Pro'sdarnold wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:06 pmIt's long thread, if I repeat something pls have mercy.
Interesting that main component mising here are the calipiers and rotors (the video states they are xtr rotors). I suspect that the design of the braking system is the root cause in the delay of releasing the new DA group. I will not be surprised if we see some electronic braking control system in the final product. If this happens there will be a wire from the sensor at the caliper and toothed ring on the rotor. The processing will happen the batery/cpu/memory module as previously dicussed.
My understanding is that in some markets electronic brakes are not accepted yet. In most (if not all) European countries the braking system needs to be able to be operated by direct action. I.e. if you run out of battery you still need to be able to stop your vehicle.LainOTN wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:18 pmThere is a patent presenting the brake-by-wire electronic signaling with hydraulic "self contained" calipers. But Alfus confirmed that this is a long term idea not to be seen in this DA iteration.darnold wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:06 pmIt's long thread, if I repeat something pls have mercy.
Interesting that main component mising here are the calipiers and rotors (the video states they are xtr rotors). I suspect that the design of the braking system is the root cause in the delay of releasing the new DA group. I will not be surprised if we see some electronic braking control system in the final product. If this happens there will be a wire from the sensor at the caliper and toothed ring on the rotor. The processing will happen the batery/cpu/memory module as previously dicussed.
In any case Shimano has said that disk brakes is one of the things that they want to improve (usage and mantenaince)
Something similar hapens with the steering systems. That's why we do not have cars with only electric steering (electric assisted systems is something else), or only electric braking.
Last edited by rhgastur on Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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IIRC even shimanos patents for "electronic braking" show a hydraulic link between lever and caliper.
So the electronics is more likely to be for monitoring, modulation and possibly ebike integration. Not full brake by wire. Barely even servo assisted.
So the electronics is more likely to be for monitoring, modulation and possibly ebike integration. Not full brake by wire. Barely even servo assisted.