Next generation of Dura-Ace Di2

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

cat4forlife
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:42 pm

by cat4forlife

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:37 am
What gear combo are you seeing this? Just on one particular gear combo or across multiple gear combos?

Another thing to possibly try is to increase the cage tension. Shimano cages come with two settings, and by default they are set to the looser setting.

One interesting aspect of the 12-speed groups is the overall quietness. And the downside is that any abnormal noises are greatly amplified 😂
I get that in big and small rings (52/36) and on the larger cogs (from largest to about the 5th largest) on a 11-30 cassette.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



satanas
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Am I imagining it, or are people reporting *a lot* more drivetrain problems with 12 speed Shimano road bits than with 11 speed, Campag 12, SRAM AXS, etc? There seem to be any number of issues with noise, chainline, etc. :-(

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

I recall that there was some discussion a while back about the nature of the increase in chain line with the 9200/8100 cranks and whether that was do to a repositioning of the chainring mounting tabs or due to a change in the geometry of the chainrings themselves.

Was a definitive answer ever arrived at?

What I am looking to determine is whether adding 9200 chainrings to an aftermarket powermeter that has a nominal chain line of 43.5mm will produce a 44.5mm chain line with the new gen chainrings. Or do all of the aftermarket spider-based PM producers have to modify their crank spiders to increase the chain line.

User avatar
pdlpsher1
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

openwheelracing wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:20 am
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:40 pm
trex wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:39 pm
Quick question.
I have an opportunity to buy a whole rd-r9250 carbon plate (someone swap it for OSPW).
Can I mount it to my Ultegra rd-r8150 to reduce weight? Is it safe to do so? If so - what would be the weight gain?
In theorey, yes. They should be compatible. But be aware that with the 11-speed groups the pulleys were not compatible (the bearing thickness is different). In other words you can't put 9100 pulleys on a 8000 cage. I'm assuming that stays the same with the 12-speed groups. Part of the weight savings actually came from the pulleys on the 11-speed groups. You should buy the 9250 cage. But just don't take your 8150 pulleys and put them on the 9250 cage once the 9250 pulleys have worn out.
Is this true? I have 9100 pulleys in 8000 and they are working fine.
If you put the two (9100 and 8000) pulleys side by side you'll see that the 8000 pulley's bearing width is much thicker than the 9100's. Although you're able to fit it, the cage is bending on both sides to accommodate the wider bearing. I have bikes with both groups and I measured the pulleys with a digital caliper. So it's a fact that they are not cross-compatible.

openwheelracing
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:41 am

by openwheelracing

Do you know if 9100 pulleys are compatible with r7000 cage?

milanv
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:03 am

by milanv

riochang wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:30 am
tbh I dont know what is the use of that tab. But cannot bend or remove it either, since it's part of the cage plate and is made from carbon.
This is the only time that I'd actually consider getting an OSPW just to solve the rattling noise...
I bought OSPW last week and I see, if it changes anything.

ccie6872
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:46 pm

by ccie6872

milanv wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:22 pm
riochang wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:30 am
tbh I dont know what is the use of that tab. But cannot bend or remove it either, since it's part of the cage plate and is made from carbon.
This is the only time that I'd actually consider getting an OSPW just to solve the rattling noise...
I bought OSPW last week and I see, if it changes anything.
Very interested to hear your results!

cat4forlife
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:42 pm

by cat4forlife

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:37 am
What gear combo are you seeing this? Just on one particular gear combo or across multiple gear combos?

Another thing to possibly try is to increase the cage tension. Shimano cages come with two settings, and by default they are set to the looser setting.

One interesting aspect of the 12-speed groups is the overall quietness. And the downside is that any abnormal noises are greatly amplified 😂
My B-screw adjustment was off. It was essentially set for a 11-34T cassette. Using the Shimano printed guide, i adjusted the B screw for a 11-30T. It's much better now. The only gear combination that i still hear the occasional chatter is small ring and 30T. And even that is not as often as before. Thanks for the suggestion!

ipenguinking
Posts: 740
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:14 pm
Location: Sunny So Cal

by ipenguinking

Thanks cat4forlife. Let me dig out the Shimano printed guide and play around with the adjustment later today.

User avatar
pdlpsher1
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

openwheelracing wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:51 pm
Do you know if 9100 pulleys are compatible with r7000 cage?
I highly doubt it. For some reason the Dura Ace level pulleys are designed differently. Like you, I intended to put Dura Ace pulleys on a 8000 cage. Since I have both 8000 and 9100 it would be a lot easier to stock just one model of pulley. That's how I found out they were different. If you aren't detecting any issues I would just leave it alone. Buy after your 9100 pulleys wear out you might be better off using the appropriate pulleys.

User avatar
pdlpsher1
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

cat4forlife wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:08 pm
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:37 am
What gear combo are you seeing this? Just on one particular gear combo or across multiple gear combos?

Another thing to possibly try is to increase the cage tension. Shimano cages come with two settings, and by default they are set to the looser setting.

One interesting aspect of the 12-speed groups is the overall quietness. And the downside is that any abnormal noises are greatly amplified 😂
My B-screw adjustment was off. It was essentially set for a 11-34T cassette. Using the Shimano printed guide, i adjusted the B screw for a 11-30T. It's much better now. The only gear combination that i still hear the occasional chatter is small ring and 30T. And even that is not as often as before. Thanks for the suggestion!
Good to hear. You might even try an over-adjustment just to see if it solves the chatter. I doubt you'll notice any degradation in shifting quality. It costs nothing to experiment a bit. Good luck.

biwa
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

How much difference will a -1mm chainline make for DA9200 shifting? I'm thinking to use the ROTOR setup but their chainline is 1mm lower than Shimano. Or is there any remedy to adjust the chainline?

BigBoyND
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

None! 1mm chainline difference is nothing. Your frame's BB centerline tolerance is likely greater than that. I can't believe we're still talking about this 1mm. I've played around with a 5mm+ range out of curiosity and it made no difference to shifting whatsoever.
2019 Spec Venge 58cm 6.9kg
- R9270/R8170, Quarq, i9.65
2021 Canyon Speedmax Disc CF8 XL heavy
- R8000, P2M, SwissSide 80 + Citec Disc

Retired:
2020 Pina Prince 59.5cm 7.4kg
2017 Cervélo P5 58cm heavy

trex
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:42 pm
Location: Catalonia

by trex

Do you also have a quiet buzzing sound when charging is complete (LED goes off, charging cable is still plugged in)? Is this normal?


by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply