Dura-Ace R9200

[BdaGhisallo]

Besides the 6.8kg rule, UCI actually forced the industry not to overly pursue aerodynamics in 2000... if it were not for the rule, today's racing bikes would be in completely different shapes yet far much faster.

That's one thing I am glad the UCI took a stand on. I want bikes to look like bikes and not some futuristic aero shaped mass with a wheel stuck on each end.

[RDY]

Besides the 6.8kg rule, UCI actually forced the industry not to overly pursue aerodynamics in 2000... if it were not for the rule, today's racing bikes would be in completely different shapes yet far much faster.

That's one thing I am glad the UCI took a stand on. I want bikes to look like bikes and not some futuristic aero shaped mass with a wheel stuck on each end.

I guess you're also thrilled by the regressive T47 BB standard that's higher drag and heavier, and there because brands are too cheap and lazy to pay for adequate conformance in manufacturing and QA to go along with it (the OEM / ODM companies they use absolutely will do it if they get paid for it). But some people seem to like threads because they associate them with bikes.

[ohexploitable]

Besides the 6.8kg rule, UCI actually forced the industry not to overly pursue aerodynamics in 2000... if it were not for the rule, today's racing bikes would be in completely different shapes yet far much faster.

That's one thing I am glad the UCI took a stand on. I want bikes to look like bikes and not some futuristic aero shaped mass with a wheel stuck on each end.

I guess you're also thrilled by the regressive T47 BB standard that's higher drag and heavier, and there because brands are too cheap and lazy to pay for adequate conformance in manufacturing and QA to go along with it (the OEM / ODM companies they use absolutely will do it if they get paid for it). But some people seem to like threads because they associate them with bikes.

wow the mental gymnastics

[ohexploitable]

also who cares about the bikes, pro cycling is a sport, it should be a competition between athletes, not a competition between engineers

[tjvirden]

It is a competition between athletes.......athletes on bikes.
Bikes do actually need some engineering.....and racing exposes weaknesses in many things quite well. It's a lovely idea that better bikes, everywhere, might result.

[justonwo]

also who cares about the bikes, pro cycling is a sport, it should be a competition between athletes, not a competition between engineers

Not true. Bike racing is many things. It's chess. It's poker. It's strength, will, and psychological fortitude. It is not always the case the the strongest guy wins. I just read a great book on bike racing tactics called, Full Gas. Guys like Thomas De Gendt have to get into the breakaway precisely BECAUSE they aren't the strongest riders.

Racers will look for any advantage they can get, including technological. If you don't look for those advantages, then next guy will. You have no choice but to pay attention to the technology.

Besides, the engineering has paid massive dividends to people that don't race. The innovations to get faster, lighter, and stronger benefit all of us.

[Theguy]

also who cares about the bikes, pro cycling is a sport, it should be a competition between athletes, not a competition between engineers

Not true. Bike racing is many things. It's chess. It's poker. It's strength, will, and psychological fortitude. It is not always the case the the strongest guy wins. I just read a great book on bike racing tactics called, Full Gas. Guys like Thomas De Gendt have to get into the breakaway precisely BECAUSE they aren't the strongest riders.

Racers will look for any advantage they can get, including technological. If you don't look for those advantages, then next guy will. You have no choice but to pay attention to the technology.

Besides, the engineering has paid massive dividends to people that don't race. The innovations to get faster, lighter, and stronger benefit all of us.

Being a pro is way different than being a regular cycling guy, I mean, most of us can ride a bike and we gonna feel more comfy on it or whatever and using 12 gears gonna make us feel more able to I don't know climb a mountain better for example or whatever but at the end of the day we cannot compare ourself or at least I cannot compare myself with pros cos I know they can beat me in any single stage at any second with any kind of bike.

[tjvirden]

I think the point made is simply that use by pros is a good (in my opinion not at all perfect) method of equipment testing - the rest of us get better equipment as a result. Generally speaking I think that's the case.

Edit: obviously, on average, the athletic performance of pros is far beyond most ordinary enthusiasts, but it's worth remembering that there are many, many very athletically talented people who ride bikes just for fun

[justonwo]

also who cares about the bikes, pro cycling is a sport, it should be a competition between athletes, not a competition between engineers

Not true. Bike racing is many things. It's chess. It's poker. It's strength, will, and psychological fortitude. It is not always the case the the strongest guy wins. I just read a great book on bike racing tactics called, Full Gas. Guys like Thomas De Gendt have to get into the breakaway precisely BECAUSE they aren't the strongest riders.

Racers will look for any advantage they can get, including technological. If you don't look for those advantages, then next guy will. You have no choice but to pay attention to the technology.

Besides, the engineering has paid massive dividends to people that don't race. The innovations to get faster, lighter, and stronger benefit all of us.

Being a pro is way different than being a regular cycling guy, I mean, most of us can ride a bike and we gonna feel more comfy on it or whatever and using 12 gears gonna make us feel more able to I don't know climb a mountain better for example or whatever but at the end of the day we cannot compare ourself or at least I cannot compare myself with pros cos I know they can beat me in any single stage at any second with any kind of bike.

I think the point is that the chase for better technology trickles down to us mainstream users, which is the primary market for these bike makers anyway. (Actually, my original point was that bike racing ISN'T just about the athlete's ability). Whether you can benefit from a particular advancement depends on the nature of the advancement. My bikes now are massively better than my bikes 15 years ago which are, in turn, light years ahead of the bikes I rode in the 80s. You don't have to be a pro to appreciate the better shifting, larger gear range, lighter bikes, more comfortable ergonomics, etc.

Anyway, this is a digression. I anxiously await the release of Shimano's next generation.

[Theguy]

Yup I agree with you, everything we get it's better than what we had some years ago and about races you are right as well, every single change they do we benefit from them as well and riders win because of a lot of different circumstances not just because they are vgood athletes.
Tdf is just round the corner, I hope for that time we r able to preorder some new di2 or a bike with it.

[harblhat]

Some more photos and speculation at Cyclingtips: https://cyclingtips.com/2021/06/2022-sh ... n-secrets/

[tjvirden]

Some good comparisons done by James Huang and he - reasonably - leaves most of the speculation to this thread. Looking at the photos again makes me think that the hoods are very close in size & shape to R9100 which I personally find superb - especially the angle of the front which makes for an extremely secure grip when holding them "aero hoods position" - slightly better than R9150, with 9120/70 inbetween I feel. I think one of the photos erroneously refers to R9250, when it means R9270. Three clusters for the cassette would be a first for Dura Ace, and perhaps will result in no weight increase for the cassette; with the small mechs, perhaps the group will be lighter. I can't really see it being available until Q1 2022 unfortunately. Will Jumbo Visma have it at the Tour?

[Butcher]

Without a doubt, using titanium and aluminum hardware would not break the bank. Don't fool yourself. Yeah, Campagnolo makes a killing on a few grams lighter SR groupset, but the amount they mark up is because they can, not because of actual costs.

My point is someone mentioned that the sytem was heavier, I'm just pointing out, there is no reason to make it lighter. It's extremely easy to get a bike to legal limits.

[Butcher]

I started getting into riding in the mid 70's. I mowed one heck of a lot of lawns to purchase a hand built Tom Ritchey bike frame and a full SR groupset. Although, I still have that bike and do not plan on ever getting rid of it, my S-Works Tarmac with SR11 EPS is much more of a bike. Technology has allowed twice as many speeds, 5bs lighter, and a much stiffer/better ride. There is absolutely no one living that can say an old 70's bike is better than anything current. You're lying to yourself and to everyone here.

It's all that technology that allows all of us to ride faster and feel much more secure, be it down hill at max speed, braking, or having any gear of your chosing between your legs. If you allow technology to stop, you'll never know what you'll be losing.

For those that do not like technology, I bet you love watching the rotary dial rotating back to 0 before you rotated the next digit. Those that truly hate technology are not here and living in a tent in the woods.

[Ritxis]

Some more photos and speculation at Cyclingtips: https://cyclingtips.com/2021/06/2022-sh ... n-secrets/

more photos? not.......only enlarged