Dura-Ace R9200
Moderator: robbosmans
Was running it on the 9170 too.
Have used Spesh, WMFG and Sigeyi.
Prefer the aesthetics of the Sigeyi and it's the lightest, so win win.
Have used Spesh, WMFG and Sigeyi.
Prefer the aesthetics of the Sigeyi and it's the lightest, so win win.
SL8 S-Works Project Black - 6.29kg
IG: RhinosWorkshop
IG: RhinosWorkshop
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That looks badass! Any tips/tricks/issues from the first few installs? Won’t get round to fitting mine for a week or so
Cervelo S3 Disc - 6.78Kg/14.94Ib
Scott CR1 - 5.69Kg/12.54Ib
Scott Addict RC - 6.92Kg/15.25Ib
OnOne - Free Ranger - 8.68Kg/19.1Ib
Scott CR1 - 5.69Kg/12.54Ib
Scott Addict RC - 6.92Kg/15.25Ib
OnOne - Free Ranger - 8.68Kg/19.1Ib
I know this is somewhat off-topic, but is the new Dura-Ace enough of an advancement that it would prevent you from buying a '21 S-Works Aethos that comes with the old 11-speed Dura-Ace @ $13,500 USD? I hate paying a premium for old technology but the only alternative is a) building the bike up which will cost more and b) going SRAM Red.
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Interesting... Why did they drop SM-BCR2/PCE1 support from e-tube? And practically every existing switch-units except SW-R9150?
I don't have a new hardware to be 100% sure, but since SW-R9150 is still supported, then PLC protocol has not been changed, so it seems another artifical limitation.
So, most likely BT-DN300 firmware, just like BT-DN110 will not send SYS_ACT command to all units if it has 'incompatible' unit registered. So, slave registration on BT-DN300 with fake unit id will do the job, as well as using new derailleurs with old stuff with custom firmware.
The only potential difference between BCR2/PCE1 and PCE02 firmware is maybe in bootloader protocol: original bootloader API uses 4bytes per packet at 1MHz while SM-PCE02 can be used to send 16bytes per packet at 2MHz and with multiple time slots. Afaik, SM-BCR2 hardware can only send 8bytes per packet at 2MHz. So it seems the only real possible incompatibility between new 9250 and current stuff is if they decided to not support original bootloader protocol inside these devices' bootloaders.
As bootloader protocol is used only to flash firmware, then all current and new devices should be able to communicate with each other using simple 4b/1MHz. And if original bootloader protocol it still supported, then SM-BCR2/PCE1 can be used for firmware reflash too.
I don't have a new hardware to be 100% sure, but since SW-R9150 is still supported, then PLC protocol has not been changed, so it seems another artifical limitation.
So, most likely BT-DN300 firmware, just like BT-DN110 will not send SYS_ACT command to all units if it has 'incompatible' unit registered. So, slave registration on BT-DN300 with fake unit id will do the job, as well as using new derailleurs with old stuff with custom firmware.
The only potential difference between BCR2/PCE1 and PCE02 firmware is maybe in bootloader protocol: original bootloader API uses 4bytes per packet at 1MHz while SM-PCE02 can be used to send 16bytes per packet at 2MHz and with multiple time slots. Afaik, SM-BCR2 hardware can only send 8bytes per packet at 2MHz. So it seems the only real possible incompatibility between new 9250 and current stuff is if they decided to not support original bootloader protocol inside these devices' bootloaders.
As bootloader protocol is used only to flash firmware, then all current and new devices should be able to communicate with each other using simple 4b/1MHz. And if original bootloader protocol it still supported, then SM-BCR2/PCE1 can be used for firmware reflash too.
One thing I find a bit cheeky is that you now have to use a computer with a SM-PCE2 and a Shimano AD305 Conversion Adapter to update the firmware on the shifters. They can only be updated with a direct connection, not via BLE.
That's an extra £200 that people need to consider!
That's an extra £200 that people need to consider!
SL8 S-Works Project Black - 6.29kg
IG: RhinosWorkshop
IG: RhinosWorkshop
- robbosmans
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Or just go to their lbs like most people
A problem that has never existed until now for updating firmware.
SL8 S-Works Project Black - 6.29kg
IG: RhinosWorkshop
IG: RhinosWorkshop
Dealer instructions and official manuals suggest to use pce2 for updating hydro shifter. But if you read e-tube website it sounds like that sometimes it is possible to update hydro shifters by connecting them to battery using di2 wire.
Both non-pce2 methods for updating hydro shifters ("app BLE -> bt-dn300 -> wireless hydro shifters connection" and "app BLE -> bt-dn300 -> wired hydro shifters connection") needs be verified (by someone, who have lbs or pce2 around just in case something goes wrong)
'
With internally mounted batteries (especially BB), this is more faff (and money) taking bikes apart to update firmware, which used to be a 2 minute job.
SL8 S-Works Project Black - 6.29kg
IG: RhinosWorkshop
IG: RhinosWorkshop
Yeah.. you can either use the SM-PCE02, OR connect the lever you want to update to the rest of the system using an EW-SD300 wire.
I have asked Shimano why, expecting an answer Monday.
My guess is that the levers don't communicate with the app/phone directly (RD is the master unit), and that Shimano decided allowing firmware updates over BluetoothLE is too risky / likely to "brick" the levers. If the RD goes 'offline' during a firmware update, you're screwed... unless you connect the lever to the system by wire .
Again.. just what I think the reason is. Should know more Monday .
RidesOfJapan and I came up with two options... either unplug the FD, then use EW-JC302 and a spare EW-SD300 wire to connect one lever, and then update the next one.
Or.. take out the seatpost (poor downtube battery users) and use a single EW-SD300 wire to update the levers. Again, one at a time.
Either way, it's definitely more of a hassle than it used to be. They're not winning any points here..
I have asked Shimano why, expecting an answer Monday.
My guess is that the levers don't communicate with the app/phone directly (RD is the master unit), and that Shimano decided allowing firmware updates over BluetoothLE is too risky / likely to "brick" the levers. If the RD goes 'offline' during a firmware update, you're screwed... unless you connect the lever to the system by wire .
Again.. just what I think the reason is. Should know more Monday .
RidesOfJapan and I came up with two options... either unplug the FD, then use EW-JC302 and a spare EW-SD300 wire to connect one lever, and then update the next one.
Or.. take out the seatpost (poor downtube battery users) and use a single EW-SD300 wire to update the levers. Again, one at a time.
Either way, it's definitely more of a hassle than it used to be. They're not winning any points here..
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