Lake vs Bont sizing

[Alexandrumarian]

I wonder how is the fit lentghwise between the two at the same size. From the charts they should be pretty similar but I am interested in the finer detail from owners of both. I have a pair of Bont Helix (same last as Vaypor S etc) in regular 44.5 and they are too tight both length and width. My feet are 278/110. No way I could use a winter sock and even with the thinest socks and cable almost full open, I sometimes get numb toes or painful ball. I also have a pair of Shimano R321 size 45 which are way long. I am now looking at a wide fit CX402, torn between 44.5 and 45..... Thanks!

[jlok]

I need 45 Wide Vaypor + 2016 and 44.5 CX301 wide.

The 301 isn't as wide but the Clarino upper is soft enough to conform to my feet.

[Alexandrumarian]

Thanks. Seems we have the same length (i searched your posts) while yours are just a bit wider. Funnily, lengthwise I'm ok in the 44.5 Bont with the right foot which is 1mm smaller all around (still no way for winter socks or thicker insole). But the left can be in agony even 2h of riding. So I stopped using them alltogether (also because the nuts are creaking in the sole). Also arch support seems to be in the wrong spot for me and coupled with the crappy insoles delivered I decided to look at Lake rather than another Bont in 45W.

[silvalis]

I was a 43W vaypor+ and a 42.5W CX237.
Note that the 237 and 301 lasts are different to the 402.
Also had the same experience with the bont arch. too far forward or something which heat molding can't get rid of. Now on the lakes for 2 years.

[beanbiken]

I have the Lake CX237 42.5W nice fit but would like the 402's but they are a more narrow shaped last. Have Bont Vaypor+ in 42.5 standard width and after an hour or so the ball/forefoot part of my foot feels like it is being crushed. Doesn't seem as if there is enough "volume"in the forefoot zone of the Bont's and not sure me going to 43's or 43W would solve it.......... damn

[bikeboy1tr]

The Bont standard is a pretty narrow fit as I had some issues with my Vaypor + crushing the ball of my foot as well and I am at 110 wide and the Bont was a 44. I would have been better with a wide for sure. I would hate to see just how narrow the narrow Bont is! The lake shoes (401) were 43.5 and width was okay but they were a bit on the long side for my 276 long foot. When I purchased a Lake cross shoe in a 43 wide it was a perfect fit. Unfortunately I could not get the Lake 402 in a wide or thats what I would have purchased instead of the Northwave. Since Northwave have not looked back, fits me like a glove.

[Alexandrumarian]

Thanks! Looks like there is a pattern with Lake working in half size less than Bont.

Bikeboy, i seen your shoe posts before when researching and I am puzzled by the 276 measurement with 43.5 or 44 shoes. You are either very pain resistant, or the 276 measurement was rather loosely taken? My 278 has zero wiggle room in 44.5 Bonts. I get some only if I take out the insole. I even rode like that once but the vibration was horrible.
Recently I noticed their last drawing shows the second toe as longest while my feet have the bigtoe as longest. If I had seen that drawing before I would have definitly ordered 45....

What Northwave do you have? I see the top models do not have wide fit. A LBS near me has the prev gen extreme in 45 for a low price, I didn't bother trying them thinking they will be too narrow.

[bikeboy1tr]

Normally I have to modify the insoles by removing the portion under the ball of my foot while keeping the arch support as I have high arches and I think this gives me a tad bit of wiggle room. My left is my longest foot at 276 and with the Bont (44) my big toe which is also my longest would rub the end of the inner shoe but that was not as uncomfortable as the width of the Vaypor in a regular squeezing my 110 mm foot. I could have easily tolerated the toe rub but not the squeezing of my forefoot. I think after half hour of that shoe my foot was saying enough is enough.
I have the Extreme Tech Plus and the Aero of the same year which fit identicle in 43 for me. I also have recently purchased the Revolution in a 43 which and it fits the same as my previous Northwaves. The Revolution is a heavy shoe and I think it will be a warm shoe as I wore it today in close to 0 C degrees with a toe warmer and a bootie and was surprised that my feet didnt freeze. I read somewhere that the newer Extreme models fit a bit tighter so it might be a bit of a guessing game for me when I purchase the new Extreme but they have been in the past a well ventilated shoe. Normally the width is just right for me with Northwave.
If you purchase the Extreme @Alexandrumarian let us know what size you get and how it fits please and thankyou.

[silvalis]

I have some northwave mtb shoes and feel that it (and other northwaves i've tried) are more of a high volume shoe than a true wide shoe.

[Alexandrumarian]

Regarding the NW, I went back to try them but they were gone....

In the end I ordered a Lake CX402 Wide in 45. I will chatter at length about the sizing process as it might help other people searching for info. No review that I read seemed to touch some of these points in detail.

I spent a lot of time going back and forth between 44.5 and 45. After measuring my foot again and again decided 279 is a better result than 278 and this put me at the start of the 45 Lake interval (283.5-286). So I went for 45 knowing they will likely feel big but at least be accommodating for thick winter socks. I do a fair amount of riding in the cold so not being forced to ultra thin summer socks is something I care about.

I've read they are made as to offer a starting point for molding and read a couple posts simply saying the heels felt awful out of the box but still I was a bit shocked by how tight the heels were when I first put them on. Tight enough to prevent the heel from touching the back of the shoe no matter how hard i tried to squeeze it in. The toes were almost touching the top so to find out if the fit was just right or too loose I had to bake them. Baking went easily as per instructions (80 deg C in convection oven for 5 mins). Heels opened very easily, I only had to stick my foot in and the heels felt into place. Tightened the boas and got up - when applying pressure I quickly discovered the arch is very high and painful . I imagine it is the same logic as the tight heel, however I did not find any relief from just using my foot shape and width. So I proceeded to heat them again, this time using finger power to push and bend the carbon tub. It took a lot of patience and some hairdryer help for a third session in order to turn them from painful to very noticeable. I would describe them now as feeling very similar to the red high arch inserts in my Shimano R321. Unpleasant to walk in but supportive and acceptable when riding. I would say my arch is medium (feels perfect in medium inserts with Shimano and molded Bonts)

I went for a short ride and quickly decided I should maybe mold them yet again and try to open the heels and arch just a little bit more. I guess the moral here is when Lake says the race last is narrow, they do mean it. So leaving aside the ball width which is spot on and true to chart (didn't even touched this part but yeah, the width is great) the buyer should carefully consider the midfoot length as well.

In terms of bike connection and support, they are truly very nice and similar to my Bont Helix. The difference is the Lake come with excellent cushion all around the foot (at the expense of weight) while the Bont have a stripped track feeling - they are much much lighter but also let through a lot of road buzz)
My Shimano R321 are still the comfiest but also not very supportive - even sloppy feeling when I jump and put down a bit of power. The heel is the mushiest part, still after a ride in them my Achilles does not feel bruised, something I can't say about the Bont. The Lake might be a problem too if I won't be able to open them some more.

I found Lake's chart very accurate and the workmanship and materials excellent (and they better be at this price!!) The carbon is easier to mold than Bont but also seemingly more delicate - I got some wrinkling on the outer 3K layer in a few spots. If you have flat arches, probably forget about them.