help campagnolo chorus shifting issues

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

The miche spacer is not the correct witdh for a campag cassette only for a miche cassette for campagnolo. miche spacer a thinner and there sprockets thicker. That problem number one. Miche sprockets and spacer should not be mixed with campag one to make a hybrid cassette. However this is the cause of the problem you are seeing.

Only use campagnoo jockey wheels in campagnolo RD's. 10000km is alot for a cassette. It's done well getting that far. be proud that it has.

I amnot sure why alcratz thinks there is a mismatch between shifter and RD.

Is the RD cable routed on the inside of the bars thats a cause of friction if its on the outside.

Replace the bottom jockey wheel. Try the RD-RE900 wheels.

JoO
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

I used a blue miche spacer to replace the broken 2.3 spacer. Measured Width of original spacer 2.26 mm. Measured width of blue miche spacer 2.27.

The routing of the cables is on the front side of the bar.

I hot wax and rotate 3 chains. Chains and cassette seem to last forever 😀

Many thanks to all of you for helping me out

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 2208
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

He tried two cassettes and problem remains.

The athena bike works ok with all the cassettes doesn't it?

A waxed chain without significant stretch but with many kms can also exhibit issues. I had once a chain going 5000km without the chain wear tool showing it was time to replace. When I did swap the chain I noticed shifting did improve and the drivetrain got a lot quieter. Seems there is more in a chain than stretch itself.

I'd test the chrorus derailleur on the athena bike and the athena derailleur on the chorus bike.

JoO
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

bm0p700f wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:52 pm
The miche spacer is not the correct witdh for a campag cassette only for a miche cassette for campagnolo. miche spacer a thinner and there sprockets thicker. That problem number one. Miche sprockets and spacer should not be mixed with campag one to make a hybrid cassette. However this is the cause of the problem you are seeing.

Only use campagnoo jockey wheels in campagnolo RD's. 10000km is alot for a cassette. It's done well getting that far. be proud that it has.

I amnot sure why alcratz thinks there is a mismatch between shifter and RD.

Is the RD cable routed on the inside of the bars thats a cause of friction if its on the outside.

Replace the bottom jockey wheel. Try the RD-RE900 wheels.
Many thank for the suggestions.

Are the new RD-RE900 (with one pulley wheel with longer teeth) pulley wheels compatible with my 2011-2014 chorus rear derailleur?
Is the one with the longer teeth the top or the bottom pulley?
I can't see why the bottom pulley would influence the shifting. Could you tell why it would?

Off topic question:
The Miche 11 speed cassette use uniform <2mm spacers
The campagnolo uses 2.2 mm spacers + one 2.3 mm spacer. Are the Campagnolo sprockets not of uniform width or is the spacing of the miche 11 speed cassette a little bit off?

joejack951
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

Try shortening your chain. You mentioned that it is at the max length when using small/small. You also noted that it seems to shift better while using the big ring (when chain tension is higher). In my experience, a tauter chain is always going to shift better.

You should also look into getting the correct derailleur hanger or modifying the one you have to bring it within Campy's specs. Having maxed out limit screws likely means that they aren't adjusted optimally (how could you know since you can't turn them any further?). Some time with a Dremel and a good file would be all that's required to 'adjust' the hanger.

JoO
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

joejack951 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:08 pm
Try shortening your chain. You mentioned that it is at the max length when using small/small. You also noted that it seems to shift better while using the big ring (when chain tension is higher). In my experience, a tauter chain is always going to shift better.

You should also look into getting the correct derailleur hanger or modifying the one you have to bring it within Campy's specs. Having maxed out limit screws likely means that they aren't adjusted optimally (how could you know since you can't turn them any further?). Some time with a Dremel and a good file would be all that's required to 'adjust' the hanger.
Contrary to Shimano, Campagnolo recommends a longer less taut chain according to their manual.
A 5 mm between the chain and 'folded derailleur cage in the small-small combination if I recall correctly
Is your experience with tauter chain = better shifter with Campagnolo drivetrains?

The derailleur hanger on my canyon is cnc'ed alluminium.
Not an old school soft sold aluminium one.
I don't see how I could adjust the hanger using a dremel of file (i have both)
https://www.canyon.com/nl-be/accessorie ... 9#id=36982
https://www.canyon.com/en-rs/gear/compo ... 17069.html

joejack951
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

JoO wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:10 pm
Contrary to Shimano, Campagnolo recommends a longer less taut chain according to their manual.
A 5 mm between the chain and 'folded derailleur cage in the small-small combination if I recall correctly
Is your experience with tauter chain = better shifter with Campagnolo drivetrains?
Most of my experience is with Shimano but I don't know how relevant that is. Campy's spec is 10-15mm between cage and chain according to this: https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _08_16.pdf

That's keeping some decent tension on the derailleur. I've done small/small with the chain just barely clearing the derailleur (Shimano) and the result is slower shifting than a higher tensioned chain. Campy's derailleurs aren't that different that I'd expect a different result.
JoO wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:10 pm
The derailleur hanger on my canyon is cnc'ed alluminium.
Not an old school soft sold aluminium one.
I don't see how I could adjust the hanger using a dremel of file (i have both)
https://www.canyon.com/nl-be/accessorie ... 9#id=36982
https://www.canyon.com/en-rs/gear/compo ... 17069.html
Thanks for the link/pics. My suggestion is to thin the area where the derailleur mounts to the hanger. You can remove most of the material using a Dremel then flatten out the surface using a file. Ideally you'd put it on a mill but not everyone has access to one. Campy has specs for where the derailleur should mount relative to the first cassette cog: https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _07_16.pdf

Just eyeballing that hanger it seems like it must be out of spec.

JoO
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

joejack951 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:28 pm
JoO wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:10 pm
Contrary to Shimano, Campagnolo recommends a longer less taut chain according to their manual.
A 5 mm between the chain and 'folded derailleur cage in the small-small combination if I recall correctly
Is your experience with tauter chain = better shifter with Campagnolo drivetrains?
Most of my experience is with Shimano but I don't know how relevant that is. Campy's spec is 10-15mm between cage and chain according to this: https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _08_16.pdf

That's keeping some decent tension on the derailleur. I've done small/small with the chain just barely clearing the derailleur (Shimano) and the result is slower shifting than a higher tensioned chain. Campy's derailleurs aren't that different that I'd expect a different result.
JoO wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:10 pm
The derailleur hanger on my canyon is cnc'ed alluminium.
Not an old school soft sold aluminium one.
I don't see how I could adjust the hanger using a dremel of file (i have both)
https://www.canyon.com/nl-be/accessorie ... 9#id=36982
https://www.canyon.com/en-rs/gear/compo ... 17069.html
Thanks for the link/pics. My suggestion is to thin the area where the derailleur mounts to the hanger. You can remove most of the material using a Dremel then flatten out the surface using a file. Ideally you'd put it on a mill but not everyone has access to one. Campy has specs for where the derailleur should mount relative to the first cassette cog: https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/ ... _07_16.pdf

Just eyeballing that hanger it seems like it must be out of spec.
Thx, I will try to measure if my hanger is out of spec

timgilbertson
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:02 am

by timgilbertson

I had similar issues with my Chorus before I realized that my dropouts weren't square. I just fought with it for a while and tried not to swap wheels once I got it right. Put the same gruppo on a new frame and it shifts perfectly.

There's also the potential that the screw in the shifter mech is loose. I've had shifting issues because of that, but usually it was dropping out of the big ring on my front derailleur.

ChiZ01
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:20 pm

by ChiZ01

total frankenstein setup and want perfect shifting? How about using original Campy parts like it was designed to?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

My post missed out one word. The miche spacer is not the cause of your shifting issue. That not is important. The spacing on the campag cassette is not something campagnolo state. What I do know when you have miche and campag cassette on the same bike the shifting seems to be identical. Campagnolo sprocket thickness may not be uniform. Not sure never measured.

JoO
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

timgilbertson wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:01 pm
I had similar issues with my Chorus before I realized that my dropouts weren't square. I just fought with it for a while and tried not to swap wheels once I got it right. Put the same gruppo on a new frame and it shifts perfectly.

There's also the potential that the screw in the shifter mech is loose. I've had shifting issues because of that, but usually it was dropping out of the big ring on my front derailleur.
I will check the dropout of the frame.
I am afraid I do not understand your second remark regarding the screw in the “shifter mech”.
Shifter= ergopower
Mech = derailleur ?

JoO
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

ChiZ01 wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:09 am
total frankenstein setup and want perfect shifting? How about using original Campy parts like it was designed to?
You should see my cross winter bike :oops:
Campagnolo + miche + kmc +fsa + stronglight + jagwire

JoO
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 7:30 am

by JoO

New update:
The new cassette shifted better than the old one but I didn't think it was worn out from using "stretched" chains. (i am fanatic chain cleaner and waxer)
Bought a set a diamond files and gave every tooth a few gentle strokes to smooth out the micro abrasions
Result: faster shifting on par with the new cassette :)
I will be using this cassette for some more K's.

Perhaps a good tip for people using very expensive cassettes to extend the life of those.

General conclusion:
I has been a very nice learning experience for me.
It is all in the details and it all adds up.
Main problem for my case: the non-floating aftermarket Tacx guide pulley
Thanks for all the advice I have received.

by Weenie


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