How much does comfort matter to you?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
AJS914
Posts: 3349
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Mr.Gib wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:06 pm
Nothing wrong the the C59. The problem of course is the tires you can fit, or can't fit as the case may be. How would a C59 feel with 30mm tires and latex innertubes at 60psi? Bloody great I imagine. Can a V2R fit 30mm's?

And if you are thinking Domane, I dare say the Synapse Hi-mod is every bit as comfortable without the complications and depending on model, a lighter bike, and for the racier set, a better geometry as well. I was expecting nothing special but was blown away by the Synapse in every respect.

Yeah, I love the C59. I really thought it would be a forever bike and some day I'd custom paint it Zabel blue even. I'm sure it would be incredible with 28 or 30mm tires. I think the V2R will take 28s but I'm not sure if that is 28mm actual max or a 28mm tire that can stretch to 30mm. I'm sure the V2R is a nice ride. I might have to aspire to a C64 - I'm sure that will take wider rubber.

I'm not seriously thinking about a Domane but when I see them in my club I get a little jealous of the magic carpet ride.

One thing I've been thinking about doing is buying another set of wheels for my S-Works Crux. I just love riding this bike. It would easily accomodate the widest of aero wheels and 30 or even 32mm tires. The Crux could be my pile on the miles bike for most training and then I'd leave the C59 for Saturday club rides or a weekly interval session.

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Calnago
Posts: 8315
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I’ve just advised two people this week to buy Domanes. I think they’re really nice bikes for their purpose. Although I do think they’ve gone a bit overboard with the front end isospeed. They already have big tires. And even the adjustable isospeed at the back, just kinda more nooks and crannies for dirt and dust to collect in and I’m not sure how many people are really “adjusting” that anyway. Simpler is always better in my book. I think the single pivoting design of the first generation is plenty, if you must add any of that at all.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie



fromtrektocolnago
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:15 pm

by fromtrektocolnago

AJS914 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:10 pm
Mr.Gib wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:06 pm
Nothing wrong the the C59. The problem of course is the tires you can fit, or can't fit as the case may be. How would a C59 feel with 30mm tires and latex innertubes at 60psi? Bloody great I imagine. Can a V2R fit 30mm's?

And if you are thinking Domane, I dare say the Synapse Hi-mod is every bit as comfortable without the complications and depending on model, a lighter bike, and for the racier set, a better geometry as well. I was expecting nothing special but was blown away by the Synapse in every respect.

Yeah, I love the C59. I really thought it would be a forever bike and some day I'd custom paint it Zabel blue even. I'm sure it would be incredible with 28 or 30mm tires. I think the V2R will take 28s but I'm not sure if that is 28mm actual max or a 28mm tire that can stretch to 30mm. I'm sure the V2R is a nice ride. I might have to aspire to a C64 - I'm sure that will take wider rubber.

I'm not seriously thinking about a Domane but when I see them in my club I get a little jealous of the magic carpet ride.

One thing I've been thinking about doing is buying another set of wheels for my S-Works Crux. I just love riding this bike. It would easily accomodate the widest of aero wheels and 30 or even 32mm tires. The Crux could be my pile on the miles bike for most training and then I'd leave the C59 for Saturday club rides or a weekly interval session.

Image
I like my C-59 a lot, but having just gotten a C-64 as well, I didn't realize how much that wider tire would benefit me. It's not a comfort thing, I never thought the C-59 wasn't comfortable but when the roads arent' great that extra 2 mm(as weird as it sounds..we're talking width of a nickel) makes the bike feel so much more planted and stable. I did drop the pressure on my tires but not all that much.( i was formerly running about 90-95 psi and now i'm about 85-90 psi. The C-59 is near perfect in my opinion but not being able to fit 25 mm tires in hindsight was a shortcoming. I could put in 28's as well but I don't feel the need to push that barrier or turn my c-64 into a gravel bike, especially when I have a firefly with 32 mm tires on it now
Colnago C-59 (Dura Ace)
Firefly(Ultegra)
Colnago C-64 disc(ultegra) with Bora 35 wheels

AJS914
Posts: 3349
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I have a lucky late C59 and I'm running 25mm GP4000s which measure out to 27mm or so. I run them at 75/80psi. Still, I'd love to be running 28mm GP5000s on wide rims @ 60psi.

Orbital
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 am
Location: Pitt Meadows, BC

by Orbital

Beaver wrote:
Orbital wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:25 pm
Since my SuperSix Evo only allows so much tire width I stay away from some roads. That’s about as far as it goes tho. I’ll still make a few sacrifices in comfort because at this point in life I only have the time for a few hours in the saddle and not as frequently as I’d like.
That's exactly where I come from. The 1st generation SuperSix Evo only has hardly 30mm clearance in the back, so 25mm tires on wide rims were impossible.

I really loved that bike, but I didn't use it as much as I should in the end. Maybe just look for a 2nd generation frameset and wheels with 21mm inside width and you will be back on the road without hassle.
I really like the bike and will keep using it as much as I can. I’ll hopefully add another bike soon here that’s more geared towards wider wheels/tyres, discs, hidden fender mounts, etc

guyc
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Location: Hampshire, England
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by guyc

Very. It’s one reason I bought the C64. It delivers there for sure.

clarinet5001
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:32 am

by clarinet5001

I view comfort as an important component of speed. My riding position is pretty aggressive yet it keeps most of the major non-power producing muscle groups neutral, so not in any way uncomfortable for me.

My 2016 [rim brake only] Scott Foil is pretty firm through the front end and more compliant out back. I find that with supple tires the lower I set the front tire pressure the faster it is. It's almost surprising how much slower the bike is when pressures are too high, probably as much as 1km/h real-world difference on the mostly coarse road surfaces out this way. Got to try a friend's bike briefly with ENVE 4.5 AR Disc wheels which he had at 70psi being a heavier rider and they still rode buttery smooth (and fast) compared to what I'm used to. I like to say 'a harsh bike is a slow bike,' not meaning the harsh bike is necessarily slow but that it's slower than it otherwise could be.

The rear tire pressure doesn't seem to matter so much but I have no good reason to run it much above 90. Of course, I don't go infinitely low because with 25c tires at 50psi on not the world's widest rims at my 79Kg weight, handling sucks at those pressures on paved surfaces. I still have narrow rims and routinely set the front tire pressure to around 85psi (or lower in Winter) or so, below there handling starts to lose its stuff. With wider rims a tire pressure setup in the 65-80psi realm isn't out of the equation. I don't think I can fit most '28c' tires with wider rims on my frame, unfortunately.

Mr.Gib
Posts: 3585
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

fromtrektocolnago wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:47 pm
Never understood the rationale of harsh riding frame and then solving that problem with wider tires. It's like fixing a noisy engine with the radio Get the right frame and then choose the right wheels. Tires should not be compensating for a problem bike. I suppose if i had a bike that i was trying to make the most of, perhaps but not to start off that way.
Wider tires (at lower pressures) may or may not be a problem solver, but they are desirable because they give much better traction and will be faster on rougher road surfaces. If you have not descended a technical pass with a rough surface using a nice compliant 28 or 30mm tire at 70 psi, then you are in for a real eye opener as to what being really hooked up to the road can mean. What would be the rational of choosing a narrower tire over a wider tire (23 vs 28mm)? (Assuming optimized rim width for each tire.)

as to the "right wheels", I'll quote myself:
Mr.Gib wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:40 pm
Perhaps you looking in the wrong place just a bit. There is some research that basically says that a frame can provide 10 times as much compliance as a wheel, and tires can provide 10 times as much compliance as a frame (my numbers are sure to be wrong but that's the basic idea). So buy yourself good solid wheels and find your comfort in the frame and tires.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

Kazyole
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:45 am
Location: NYC

by Kazyole

Comfort is extremely important to me. Probably the only consideration I value more than weight.

Aerodynamics I don't care so much about. I mostly ride by myself for my own enjoyment and fitness, so it doesn't really bother me if I could have theoretically saved an additional 2 minutes on a 3 hour ride. Only difference is I'm home sooner. I ride a somewhat aggressive position because it works for me, but I'm not going out of my way to select the absolute most aero frameset or wheels.

Weight is important for me. I'm a small/skinny guy (58kg) so I'm naturally more of a climber than anything else. The times I really want to lay it down on a segment or a timed climb in a gran fondo event or whatever, that's always going to be uphill. Also, quite obviously, I'm replying to a thread on the weightweenies forum right now. So there's that obsession to contend with.

But the biggest thing is comfort. I spend a lot of my leisure time on my bike. If I'm not enjoying it, I'm going to ride less and get less out of it. And if I'm in pain, I'm not enjoying it. Doesn't matter if a part is light weight or crazy aerodynamic. If I can't live it it, I'm not going to force myself to try.

Fortunately weightweenie-ism has never been an impediment to comfort in my experience. I ride a cervelo R series frame. Currently an R5. Picking up my freshly built RCA today. Lightweight frame, stiff as hell through the BB, but very nicely vertically compliant. Darimo seatpost. Under 75 grams, and I find it to be reasonably flexy and comfortable. Berk unpadded Lupina is genuinely the most comfortable saddle I've ridden at 72g, and I've done +200 mile days on it.

I think if I were an aeroweenie I'd probably get to the point where I'd have to make some compromises in one direction or the other, but thankfully I haven't really encountered that as a problem. Though at the same time I'm also sure that aero frames have probably come a long way in terms of compliance since the last time I spent any serious time on one.

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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Sometimes comfort can make you faster. For example even if you're flexible and you can handle your slammed bars and stem they might be in reality too low for longer rides and so you spend most of your time riding on the hoods. If the bars are a bit higher you will probably end up much happier in the drops for a far longer time.

TimF
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 11:18 pm

by TimF

That's great advice. I have also learnt that over time I drop the bars lower but wasn't taking into account being on the drops, just on the hoods!

jasperp
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:38 pm

by jasperp

interesting topic.
My recent experience is I switched from a large endurance frame (scott) to a much smaller ritchey frame size and I love it. Instead of trying to make a big endurance frame fit in one way (saddle forward, too much weight on hands, all power from the knees) I can sit comfortably in multiple positions (hoods, drops, bar, on the back of the saddle, on the tip etc) in different situations (climbing, solo against the wind, midpack, hard or easy riding). Do bikefits take this into account? I don't know..

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mattr
Posts: 4637
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Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

jasperp wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:30 am
Do bikefits take this into account? I don't know..
Given that you've got the right size frame in the first place, and an actual bike fitter.
Yes.

by Weenie


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Lewn777
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Yeah for me there's a sweetspot. I learnt this from having one bike mega slammed, and another Roubaix in another country with much higher bars. I found that with the Roubaix I could live all day in the drops, whereas on super slammed bike I'd naturally just ride on the hoods all day long except going downhill. Therefore the bike is perfect if you can ride comfortably in the drops for an hour or more depending on what your ideal ride time is, without wanting to go to the hoods. I have about 3cm of spacers on my main bike, and I could so easily go lower or slammed, but on my 8-12 hour enduro rides I'd be gravitating to the hoods too much.

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