Cannondale SuperSix vs Canyon Ultimate vs Giant TCR vs Trek Emonda vs Cervelo R5 vs Focus Izalco vs...

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
ND4SPD
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:10 am

by ND4SPD

I'm on a verge of buying Cannondale Supersix Evo Hi-Mod Etap...

I like the classic looks, frame size suits me...

Other bikes that I have looked at are Canyon Ultimate, Giant TCR, Trek Emonda, Cervelo R5, Focus Izalco, Orbea Orca, Look 785, Factor O2, etc... You see the pattern...

I'm looking for a light climbing bike that is comfortable...

Any thoughts or insights why I should or shouldn't buy Supersix, and comparisons with any other bikes that were, or were not mentioned before?

pocari123
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:14 am

by pocari123

I have a supersix Evo HM and I love it. Pretty good at everything and actually noticeably more comfortable than the tarmac SL6 I had before.

But...I'm not sure if it's a placebo effect or what but the bike feels heavier than it is. A bit less snap than the SL6. Maybe it's looking down at a fat top tube that makes the bike feel heavier

If you're just looking for comfort and to do steady climbs, then you can't go wrong with the supersix. Although do keep in mind that they might release a new one with the caad13 not saying the new one would be better but the old one would definitely be cheaper


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by Weenie


ND4SPD
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 4:10 am

by ND4SPD

pocari123 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:31 am
I have a supersix Evo HM and I love it. Pretty good at everything and actually noticeably more comfortable than the tarmac SL6 I had before.

But...I'm not sure if it's a placebo effect or what but the bike feels heavier than it is. A bit less snap than the SL6. Maybe it's looking down at a fat top tube that makes the bike feel heavier Image

If you're just looking for comfort and to do steady climbs, then you can't go wrong with the supersix. Although do keep in mind that they might release a new one with the caad13 Image not saying the new one would be better but the old one would definitely be cheaper
Supersix Evo should be the most comfortable race bike, without any "gimmick" suspension like Trek Madone and Domane have...

I have read that about new CAAD13, I would not be surprised if new Supersix comes... But I don't know what can they make better without changing the design (that includes both CAAD12 and Supersix), maybe add a little aero here and there, on disc versions all of the cables integrated/hidden, and add new SRAM RED eTap AXS... And I don't think I will wait for that long because I got my eye on one very nice, red Supersix EVO HM :)

K4m1k4z3
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:33 pm

by K4m1k4z3

A new generation of the TCR is anticipated for the 2020 model year. Not 100% sure about the SuperSix but it also is due for an overhaul. Cannondale just released the SystemSix, now CAAD13 and the SuperSix is next in line.
Just my two cents.
Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1 Disc '18

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kgt
Posts: 7538
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

You may add Time Alpe d'Huez to the list.

zappafile123
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

My Ranking based on my experience

Top 3- head and shoulders above the bottom 3
SL6 (does everything in a way that makes me prefer it above the rest - fastest feeling of the lot)
R5 (excellent race bike, tarmac a little more muscle)
Ultimate (does everything very well, most resposnive Ive ridden, something subtley boring about its ride feel once up to speed)

Cannondale (+1 comfort, -1 snappy, -1 dull ride)
TCR (+1 race bike, -1 street cred)
Izalco Max (objectively a good bike, but poorly balanced compared to the rest)

I have heard the 02 is very stiff. I have also heard that there are layup similarities with the Izalco Max, i.e. one insider espoused that they sort of the same frame - that could be bullshit.

I use a 2012 SS Evo HM as a commuter. It does everything well, but boy its just go no character as a bike. The Tarmac SL6 is on another level. I've briefly ridden the updated dale, and its largely similar with some very mild improvement in stiffness, but its basically the same, marginally improved ride from memory.
Enigma Elite HSS| Spesh Tarmac SL6|Colnago C60|De Rosa Protos|Bianchi Oltre XR4&XR2|BMC SLR01 16|Cannondale Evo HM 12|Focus Izalco Max| Ridley Helium SL|Basso Diamante 15|Scapin Dyseys S8|Time ZXRS|Giant TCR SL 12| Ridley Noah 08|Look 585|Cervelo SLC

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Beaver
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:06 pm
Location: Lower Saxony - Germany

by Beaver

ND4SPD wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 am
Supersix Evo should be the most comfortable race bike, without any "gimmick" suspension like Trek Madone and Domane have...
Comfort you get from thin seatstays and a low diameter, long extended seatpost - but mostly from low tire pressure.

So the Tarmac SL6 should be better here, did it have a different wheelset?

And in the latest Tour mag. test the Canyon Aeroad with the "normal" (but designed for flex) Carbon seatpost was as comfortable as the Madone with IsoSpeed...

amngwlvs
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:45 pm

by amngwlvs

K4m1k4z3 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:11 am
A new generation of the TCR is anticipated for the 2020 model year. Not 100% sure about the SuperSix but it also is due for an overhaul. Cannondale just released the SystemSix, now CAAD13 and the SuperSix is next in line.
Just my two cents.
I was at the local Giant dealer chatting about a new TCR next year with the owner and he's not convinced it will be happening. I asked why they wouldn't do it on what is their flagship model considering they've done big refreshes on the Defy and Propel (stems, fully internal routing, etc) and his reply was "because it's the perfect race bike. There's a reason the pros still ride it as is and it sells out every year".

Who knows though so take it with a grain of salt!
2018 Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc
2015 Giant Propel Advanced 2
2013 Trek 520

dim
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

Trek Emonda or Scott Addict for a climbing bike
Trek Emonda SL6
Miyata One Thousand

K4m1k4z3
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:33 pm

by K4m1k4z3

amngwlvs wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:02 pm
I was at the local Giant dealer chatting about a new TCR next year with the owner and he's not convinced it will be happening. I asked why they wouldn't do it on what is their flagship model considering they've done big refreshes on the Defy and Propel (stems, fully internal routing, etc) and his reply was "because it's the perfect race bike. There's a reason the pros still ride it as is and it sells out every year".
Who knows though so take it with a grain of salt!
They just want to sell you their bikes. Of course the current iteration is perfect... until a new one arrives.

The TCR is a great machine don't get me wrong, I've got one of the current gen with discs, but it's lacking in certain aspects - integration (as you mentioned), wider rims and tyres, comfort element (D-fuse etc.).
Giant TCR Advanced Pro 1 Disc '18

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Dan Gerous
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:28 pm

by Dan Gerous

As the owner of a SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod eTAP, I'm very happy with it.

Light, clean/simple/elegant look, good BB stiffness (lack of BB stiffness and tight tire clearance were the negative points of the older generation, the current one can take 28-30mm tires if you want extra comfort)... It's one of the most comfortable race bike around, not that important for me but, the frame's vertical compliance that some blame for dullness makes the tires stick to the road, it doesn't bounce around on less than perfect roads. Combine that subtle suspension with the ridiculously good geometry and handling and it's a fantastic ride, it's handling is quick and sharp without being too nervous, add the tire grip and it's a very easy bike to maneuvre at any speed on any road... Handling for me is one of the best thing about the SuperSix, it's just so balanced.

If it was me, I'd wait until July to buy as the update should be announced then, but if you need one now, it's already a wonderful bike that's hard to fault in it's current form... And I suspect the update will be more dramatic for the disc brake variant than the rim brake model, the current Evo Disc was kind of an after-thought while the next gen will have been designed with discs from the ground up but if like me you'd rather stick with rim brakes for a little while still, there isn't that much they can improve...

Karvalo
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

amngwlvs wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:02 pm
I was at the local Giant dealer chatting about a new TCR next year with the owner and he's not convinced it will be happening. I asked why they wouldn't do it on what is their flagship model considering they've done big refreshes on the Defy and Propel (stems, fully internal routing, etc) and his reply was "because it's the perfect race bike. There's a reason the pros still ride it as is and it sells out every year".
Hehe, that's funny, since all the chat from Cervelo is that Sunweb ditched Giant because Dumoulin wanted an allround race bike more aero than the TCR, and Giant weren't interested in developing anything the pros were asking for.

Not saying either is 100% true, just an amusing contrast.

robeambro
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

ND4SPD wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:08 pm
I'm on a verge of buying Cannondale Supersix Evo Hi-Mod Etap...

I like the classic looks, frame size suits me...

Other bikes that I have looked at are Canyon Ultimate, Giant TCR, Trek Emonda, Cervelo R5, Focus Izalco, Orbea Orca, Look 785, Factor O2, etc... You see the pattern...

I'm looking for a light climbing bike that is comfortable...

Any thoughts or insights why I should or shouldn't buy Supersix, and comparisons with any other bikes that were, or were not mentioned before?
My only suggestion is to pay close attention to the geometry.

To quote two of those, the Orca size 55 has a stack of 584, reach 387. The TCR size M (which would be roughly the equivalent) has a stack of 545, reach 383. So you're looking at two bikes with a 4 cm difference in stack, which is by no means small. Figure out your fit first, I'd say..



You want a bike that is LIGHT and COMFORTABLE.

LIGHT: I would guess all of those frames will be within 100-200gr of each other. The lightest bike will be the one you can get with the best and lightest components. So probably Canyon or Giant may come with a better spec for the same money.

COMFORTABLE: here the situation gets intricated, as comfort comes from a wide array of factors, main ones being tires, wheels, saddle, seatpost, and so on. All the bikes you mentioned will be fairly comfortable in their own right - there may be differences but nothing outrageous, as you're not comparing a full-on aero bike with 23mm tires versus a plush endurance bike on 28mm tires.

Aerodynamics weren't mentioned as a criterion, but I will say that some of the bikes you mention (notably TCR, Emonda, Supersix..) are not really that much optimised for aerodynamics, which means especially on flats you may be looking at a small wattage penalty versus some of the others.

I have recently ordered a SL6, but it's not as traditional-looking as you would like probably. Among those you mentioned, I'd consider the R5.

reedplayer
Posts: 456
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:10 am

by reedplayer

zappafile123 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:48 am
.....
Izalco Max (objectively a good bike, but poorly balanced compared to the rest)
hmmm, what exactly do you mean with "poorly balanced"?
zappafile123 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:48 am
I use a 2012 SS Evo HM as a commuter. It does everything well, but boy its just go no character as a bike. The Tarmac SL6 is on another level. I've briefly ridden the updated dale, and its largely similar with some very mild improvement in stiffness, but its basically the same, marginally improved ride from memory.
i think thats a question of personal preference.

Karvalo
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

zappafile123 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:48 am
I have heard the 02 is very stiff. I have also heard that there are layup similarities with the Izalco Max, i.e. one insider espoused that they sort of the same frame - that could be bullshit.
Absolute nonsense.

by Weenie


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