Vittoria Graphene 2.0

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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refthimos
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:33 pm
It sounds like Vittoria re shuffled their tyre range a bit with the Corsa 2.0s. The G+ 2.0 has become tougher and more durable, and but with lower crr and Speed 2.0 has been slotted in near where the G+ 1.0 was, but probably not quite as tough and a bit faster in return.
Actually the G2.0 version of the Corsa Speed appears to be much more durable compared to the initial G1.0 version. Crr only decreased a bit with the G2.0, so either Vitorria ran up against the limits of rolling resistance reduction or they heard rider feedback re: the fragility of the G1.0 Speeds and prioritized extra durability over even more speed.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
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aeroisnteverything
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

refthimos wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:53 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:33 pm
It sounds like Vittoria re shuffled their tyre range a bit with the Corsa 2.0s. The G+ 2.0 has become tougher and more durable, and but with lower crr and Speed 2.0 has been slotted in near where the G+ 1.0 was, but probably not quite as tough and a bit faster in return.
Actually the G2.0 version of the Corsa Speed appears to be much more durable compared to the initial G1.0 version. Crr only decreased a bit with the G2.0, so either Vitorria ran up against the limits of rolling resistance reduction or they heard rider feedback re: the fragility of the G1.0 Speeds and prioritized extra durability over even more speed.
You say a little faster, but it's 10%. 10% improvement is a lot. If they only made that same improvement from G1.0 to 2.0 with the regular Corsa tyres, rather than regressing...

by Weenie


Nickldn
Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:57 pm
refthimos wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:53 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:33 pm
It sounds like Vittoria re shuffled their tyre range a bit with the Corsa 2.0s. The G+ 2.0 has become tougher and more durable, and but with lower crr and Speed 2.0 has been slotted in near where the G+ 1.0 was, but probably not quite as tough and a bit faster in return.
Actually the G2.0 version of the Corsa Speed appears to be much more durable compared to the initial G1.0 version. Crr only decreased a bit with the G2.0, so either Vitorria ran up against the limits of rolling resistance reduction or they heard rider feedback re: the fragility of the G1.0 Speeds and prioritized extra durability over even more speed.
You say a little faster, but it's 10%. 10% improvement is a lot. If they only made that same improvement from G1.0 to 2.0 with the regular Corsa tyres, rather than regressing...
With the G+ 2.0 I think Vittoria made a conscious decision to trade crr for additional toughness. This may be because the G+ 1.0 was always considered fast, but prone to flatting.

The G+ 2.0 is a better general purpose road riding tyre now and probably has a broader audience as a result. But it's no longer the tyre of choice for the crr weenie brigade and TT crowd. That would be the Corsa Speed 2.0 now.

I'm on my last G+ 1.0 tub and can't source anymore, so I'll try a Speed 2.0 next time, I hope it's comparable to the G+ 1.0. If I can get 1,500 miles out of it on the front wheel then I'll be happy.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels 6.5kg

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 517
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

Nickldn wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:33 pm

With the G+ 2.0 I think Vittoria made a conscious decision to trade crr for additional toughness. This may be because the G+ 1.0 was always considered fast, but prone to flatting.

The G+ 2.0 is a better general purpose road riding tyre now and probably has a broader audience as a result. But it's no longer the tyre of choice for the crr weenie brigade and TT crowd. That would be the Corsa Speed 2.0 now.

I'm on my last G+ 1.0 tub and can't source anymore, so I'll try a Speed 2.0 next time, I hope it's comparable to the G+ 1.0. If I can get 1,500 miles out of it on the front wheel then I'll be happy.
TBH I think they just got it wrong. And it's no particular shade on Vittoria - this stuff appears to be geniuinnely hard. They claimed to have reduced Crr across the range when the tyre was released. But the claim only panned out for the Corsa Speed and not for the other models (and then it also turns out that tubeless version performs even worse relatively speaking). They have different compounds on the shoulder and the center thread of the Corsa and Corsa Control tyres, with the center thread compound supposedly engineered for low Crr, while the shoulder compound is for grip. Well, the grip is excellent. Crr - not so much. So the most obvious hypoethesis is that the shoulder compound is applied too close to the center and contacts the surface too much when rolling straight and the bike isn't yet in a lean. Perhaps if they moved it out to shoulders more, the tyre would roll faster, still have good cornering grip, but inferior braking performance. I would argue that the tyre that is specifically performing not as it should be is Corsa: it's Crr is basically the same as Corsa Conntrol, and that is pretty clearly not how it should be.

The other possibility is that tyre construction isn't optimal, particularly on tubeless - this is an aspect that Goodyear also seems to have gotten a bit off, given that their clincher+latex also outperforms the tubeless version.

Last thing I'll say is that it's a shame we don't hear from Vittoria directly about this. With JV on this board, we have pretty good insight into Goodyear. But it would be equally interesting to hear what Vittoria think about Crr tests. We keep referring to steel drum testing as though it's a good real world proxy. Maybe it is and maybe it is not. Realistically, it's all we have, plus Aerocoach validation on the velodrome, but obviously velodrome surface is also not exactly like chipseal. But what if Vittoria had a different test protocol internally that showed the results they actually wanted? Would be good to know what that protocol was.

Mcdeez
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:40 pm

by Mcdeez

mrlobber wrote:Corsa Speeds G2.0 are generally good for ~1000km of riding for an average 65-75kg rider. Go beyond that mileage, and the risks of puncture significantly increase.
Youre talking about clincher or tubless?

mrlobber
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Corsa Speeds are only available as tubeless, I haven't seen any clincher-only version of that tyre.
Ex-bikes: Cube Aerium C68 SLT 2018 / Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596

Mcdeez
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:40 pm

by Mcdeez

mrlobber wrote:Corsa Speeds are only available as tubeless, I haven't seen any clincher-only version of that tyre.
Good to know,really debating if i stay gp5000 tl or corsa speed

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