Vittoria Graphene 2.0

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

xav
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: UK

by xav

Nickldn wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:48 pm
petromyzon wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:23 pm
For absolute speed and sensible durability I would imagine you'd need to track down some Conti Pro Ltds but no data or experience to back that up.
Anecdotally, I would think Conti Pro Ltds (the ones with latex tubes) would be quite similar in terms of CRR to the Corsa G+ 2.0. They are not know (again anecdotally) for low CRR, but they are clearly quite durable. I bet they weigh about the same.

Sadly not a lot of objective testing available on these tyres (if you can ever find them for sale). In other words I'm not convinced enough by the Conti Pro Ltds to actually go to the trouble to source some and fit them. Guess I'll stick with the Corsas G+ for another season.
These will be part of our published tubular data (Conti Comp Pro Ltd ALX). We've already tested the Record tubulars and they're not as fast as the Record clinchers - glued on properly, not using tape. Corsa Speed tubulars are good though, and we'll be doing the Corsa tubulars too. Just takes much longer with the tubular data as we have to glue the tyres on, let them cure for a bit etc.!

Nickldn
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

xav wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:54 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:48 pm
petromyzon wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:23 pm
For absolute speed and sensible durability I would imagine you'd need to track down some Conti Pro Ltds but no data or experience to back that up.
Anecdotally, I would think Conti Pro Ltds (the ones with latex tubes) would be quite similar in terms of CRR to the Corsa G+ 2.0. They are not know (again anecdotally) for low CRR, but they are clearly quite durable. I bet they weigh about the same.

Sadly not a lot of objective testing available on these tyres (if you can ever find them for sale). In other words I'm not convinced enough by the Conti Pro Ltds to actually go to the trouble to source some and fit them. Guess I'll stick with the Corsas G+ for another season.
These will be part of our published tubular data (Conti Comp Pro Ltd ALX). We've already tested the Record tubulars and they're not as fast as the Record clinchers - glued on properly, not using tape. Corsa Speed tubulars are good though, and we'll be doing the Corsa tubulars too. Just takes much longer with the tubular data as we have to glue the tyres on, let them cure for a bit etc.!
Thanks Xav, that comparison will be really interesting.

I'm open to changing my tubular tyre choice, but want to know it's genuinely worth it in terms of crr.

I'm still not sold on the Corsa Speed for my riding, for example I went out for a ride at lunchtime on my "good" bike and the roads were wet and covered in sludge from fallen leaves (autumn in London), but no problems on the Corsa G+'s, lots of grip, braking was just fine and not especially concerned about getting a puncture. Not sure how the Corsa Speed would fare in these circumstances.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels 6.5kg

by Weenie


mrlobber
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Corsa Speeds G2.0 are generally good for ~1000km of riding for an average 65-75kg rider. Go beyond that mileage, and the risks of puncture significantly increase.
Ex-bikes: Cube Aerium C68 SLT 2018 / Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596

Nickldn
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

mrlobber wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:20 pm
Corsa Speeds G2.0 are generally good for ~1000km of riding for an average 65-75kg rider. Go beyond that mileage, and the risks of puncture significantly increase.
What are your impressions of grip and braking performance of the Speed compared to the G+, wet and dry?

The wet weather performance of the G+ is pretty good and that's not something I would want to compromise on too much. The Vittoria website seems to suggest the Speed has less grip than the G+, but it's hard to really know what that means in real life.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels 6.5kg

Yoln
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:53 pm
mrlobber wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:20 pm
Corsa Speeds G2.0 are generally good for ~1000km of riding for an average 65-75kg rider. Go beyond that mileage, and the risks of puncture significantly increase.
What are your impressions of grip and braking performance of the Speed compared to the G+, wet and dry?

The wet weather performance of the G+ is pretty good and that's not something I would want to compromise on too much. The Vittoria website seems to suggest the Speed has less grip than the G+, but it's hard to really know what that means in real life.
Definitely less grip and much less lifespan. I pushed mine to 3000+ km on perfect pavement this summer, but would take those on wet. The downside of being absurdly fast I guess...
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160943

Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161550

Nickldn
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Yoln wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:05 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:53 pm
mrlobber wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:20 pm
Corsa Speeds G2.0 are generally good for ~1000km of riding for an average 65-75kg rider. Go beyond that mileage, and the risks of puncture significantly increase.
What are your impressions of grip and braking performance of the Speed compared to the G+, wet and dry?

The wet weather performance of the G+ is pretty good and that's not something I would want to compromise on too much. The Vittoria website seems to suggest the Speed has less grip than the G+, but it's hard to really know what that means in real life.
Definitely less grip and much less lifespan. I pushed mine to 3000+ km on perfect pavement this summer, but would take those on wet. The downside of being absurdly fast I guess...
Yeah, it sounds like a compromise for sure :(

I think that I'll have to wait for the Aerocoach comparison of crr to find out just how much faster the Speeds are compared to the G+ 2.0.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels 6.5kg

xav
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:59 pm
Location: UK

by xav

Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:55 pm
Thanks Xav, that comparison will be really interesting.

I'm open to changing my tubular tyre choice, but want to know it's genuinely worth it in terms of crr.

I'm still not sold on the Corsa Speed for my riding, for example I went out for a ride at lunchtime on my "good" bike and the roads were wet and covered in sludge from fallen leaves (autumn in London), but no problems on the Corsa G+'s, lots of grip, braking was just fine and not especially concerned about getting a puncture. Not sure how the Corsa Speed would fare in these circumstances.
Honestly I've only ever used Corsa Speeds for racing (same with our race team), never training, so we don't have experience of using them on bad roads. I've been happy with the grip though during technical TTs, no issues to report there. I think Corsa would be a far better option for all round use.

mrlobber
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:36 am
Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:53 pm
What are your impressions of grip and braking performance of the Speed compared to the G+, wet and dry?
Well, you can't have it all. Faster tyre should always be associated with less grip to a degree, and G2.0 speed is no exception.
I've never used them in rain, as they were my TT (including training) tyres, I never ride my TT bike in the wet :) and my last rainy TT was 3 years before these tyres were invented :D
Ex-bikes: Cube Aerium C68 SLT 2018 / Cervelo S5 2015 / Felt AR FRD 2014 / Cannondale SS HM 2014 / Scott Addict SL 2014 / Scott Plasma Premium 2014 / Orbea Orca 2008 / Look 596

Nickldn
Posts: 500
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

mrlobber wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:20 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:53 pm
What are your impressions of grip and braking performance of the Speed compared to the G+, wet and dry?
Well, you can't have it all. Faster tyre should always be associated with less grip to a degree, and G2.0 speed is no exception.
I've never used them in rain, as they were my TT (including training) tyres, I never ride my TT bike in the wet :) and my last rainy TT was 3 years before these tyres were invented :D
Honestly was considering a Speed 2.0 for the front earlier in the year, but then I had a really inconvenient puncture of a G+ 1.0 and decided that I didn't want anything less puncture resistant after all.

It sounds like Vittoria re shuffled their tyre range a bit with the Corsa 2.0s. The G+ 2.0 has become tougher and more durable, and but with lower crr and Speed 2.0 has been slotted in near where the G+ 1.0 was, but probably not quite as tough and a bit faster in return.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels 6.5kg

sethjs
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

@xav I'm wondering if you have a POV on the difference in your testing protocol versus the one Jarno uses at bicyclerollingresistance.com? He tested the Pirellia P Zero Race SL TLR and the Vittoria Corsa 2 TLR as roughly equal, where you found the Vittoria to be substantially worse. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Sammutd88
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:14 am

by Sammutd88

Mr.Gib wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:10 am
Sammutd88 wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:58 pm
Mr.Gib wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:23 pm
Sammutd88 wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:36 pm
Can anyone report actual measurements of the 28c and more importantly the 30c Corsa/Corsa Control on a 19mm inner/ 24mm outer width rim? Width obviously but height especially to see if they fit under rim brake calipers. Cheers
What calipers? What bike?
In general, the Corsas and Controls are fairly true to size on 19mm internal rims. As for heights, that are "flatter/lower" than most.
Canyon Ultimate CF SL - rim brake Ultegra (not direct mount). Seems to fit a 28mm easily of the previous generation of Corsa, width wise would fit a 30mm but worried about height of tyre.
The only Ultegra regular mount caliper that I know would safely fit a 30mm Corsa or Corsa Control is the older 6700 series. The subsequent 6800 has less room and is close with 28mm. Not sure about later models. Even if the 30mm would roll clear, there is a risk in the event of a flat the tire could spread out and jam between the fork legs. I'd stick to 28mm.
So I went ahead and ordered a set of Corsa Control 30c's, against all advice :p. They do fit, and spin unimpeded, but there's only about 2-2.5mm clearance on the caliper and 1.5mm clearance from top of fork. Lovely tyres. Will probably end up on a set of 28's for a bit more clearance though.......as you suggested ;)

Smack bang on 30mm width wise on 19c rim.

Finn
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:16 pm
Location: Europe

by Finn

xav wrote:
Nickldn wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:48 pm
petromyzon wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:23 pm
For absolute speed and sensible durability I would imagine you'd need to track down some Conti Pro Ltds but no data or experience to back that up.
Anecdotally, I would think Conti Pro Ltds (the ones with latex tubes) would be quite similar in terms of CRR to the Corsa G+ 2.0. They are not know (again anecdotally) for low CRR, but they are clearly quite durable. I bet they weigh about the same.

Sadly not a lot of objective testing available on these tyres (if you can ever find them for sale). In other words I'm not convinced enough by the Conti Pro Ltds to actually go to the trouble to source some and fit them. Guess I'll stick with the Corsas G+ for another season.
These will be part of our published tubular data (Conti Comp Pro Ltd ALX). We've already tested the Record tubulars and they're not as fast as the Record clinchers - glued on properly, not using tape. Corsa Speed tubulars are good though, and we'll be doing the Corsa tubulars too. Just takes much longer with the tubular data as we have to glue the tyres on, let them cure for a bit etc.!
Any update on the tubular testing?




Supersix56
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:31 pm

by Supersix56

We sell a lot of the Graphenes. Im a GP5000 rider myself but the VG's feel very very smooth.

fizzaz
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:02 pm
Location: Nashville, TN

by fizzaz

So my rave review of the Corsa Control tube-type may be different for the TLR. The Control just fits into the perfect niche of tough but good riding tire, basically my go-to for everything but racing. Having gone through 2 sets of the TLR in the same mileage as the tube-type I can confidently say the TLR has some issues. The cotton sidewall is very weak and susceptible to punctures. The sidewall will remain structurally fine after a nick -- my tube-type experience was that it was fine even after a large gash -- but it will not hold air or seal (orange seal). Every time these punctured it required a tube to be used because of a small cut in the sidewall. These are the compromises you make for ride quality. I suspect this carries over to the normal Corsas as well.

Patches seem to work only on small cuts but anything larger than small and the patches are not thick enough to withstand the pressure and they protrude through the sidewall. Now, you can use car radial patches but these are large and heavy, but it did work in the tire I had basically written off as dead. That tire now hangs on the garage wall as a last resort.

Even with all this said, I still like these tires. I would still race them in grimey conditions. *But* I now find myself tiptoeing in areas I would have normally slammed through prior.

User avatar
MrCurrieinahurry
Moderator
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:01 pm

by MrCurrieinahurry

I'm whacking on some corsa control 25s later with vred latex tubes will weight and report back,

Sent from my MAR-LX1B using Tapatalk

Formerly known as Curryinahurry

by Weenie


Post Reply