Vittoria Graphene 2.0

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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Jackofallgrades
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:15 am

by Jackofallgrades

JayDee81 wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 12:14 pm
Jackofallgrades wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:31 pm
JayDee81 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:32 am
You will probably hit more debris with the rear wheel compared to the front one, because you can easily manoeuvre around the debris with the front wheel, but the rear one doesn't track the same. This is more apparent when you ride off road, especially on mtb. Also it's easier to lighten the front wheel over debris or cracks compared to the rear one. Plus you have more weight on the rear wheel. All these might be cause of punctures only on the rear wheel.
Absolutely, but I haven't seen this much of a discrepancy in other sets, and purposefully chose the Control in the hope this would counter some of that effect. Certainly in terms of both surface cuts and cuts that go all the way through, it hasn't been noticeably better than Corsas in my experience :noidea:
Honestly I'd attribute it to pure chance. Most punctures on road are just bad luck anyway.
Just adding my $0.02, think we all know punctures are largely chance but still worth talking about it.
Cannondale SSEvo3 'Agaaaaaaaavé' - 7.5kg
...Work in Progress viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161634

sethjs
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Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

Aerocoach just tested the Corsa 2 TLR for rolling resistance. Pretty terrible results.

I’m trying to figure out why these have been hyped particularly by Josh Poertner for RR when both BicycleRollingResistance and Aerocoach have found them to be pretty bad.

Shame because they’re super grippy...but hard to seat.

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/time-trial ... tance-data


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by Weenie


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JayDee81
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by JayDee81

sethjs wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:36 pm
Aerocoach just tested the Corsa 2 TLR for rolling resistance. Pretty terrible results.

I’m trying to figure out why these have been hyped particularly by Josh Poertner for RR when both BicycleRollingResistance and Aerocoach have found them to be pretty bad.

Shame because they’re super grippy...but hard to seat.

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/time-trial ... tance-data


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It's still only a test on rollers. There is a reason to be skeptical about such tests because they are only partially similar to riding on a road. What I am referring to is that the surface is completely different.

sethjs
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Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

Yup - that's right. My guess - and this is obviously only a guess - is that the rank order of the tires from the roller tests probably roughly plays out on the street - but probably at very different actual rolling resistance levels. But unfortunately, who knows.

That said, @xav would know more. I believe they use rollers and then test athletes on track / maybe street?

refthimos
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Double post
Last edited by refthimos on Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 | 6.51kg
SystemSix | 8.01kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8/FFWD Falcon | Roval 321
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

refthimos
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

sethjs wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:36 pm
Aerocoach just tested the Corsa 2 TLR for rolling resistance. Pretty terrible results.

I’m trying to figure out why these have been hyped particularly by Josh Poertner for RR when both BicycleRollingResistance and Aerocoach have found them to be pretty bad.

Shame because they’re super grippy...but hard to seat.

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/time-trial ... tance-data


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So... yes the Corsa is a slow tire. But Josh and Aerocoach have never "hyped" the Corsa. They have merely reported data, not "hype." More importantly, they have reported data for the Corsa Speed, not the Corsa. These are two different tires. You seem to have confused them.
EVO1 | 5.37kg
EVO3 | 6.51kg
SystemSix | 8.01kg
P5 | 9070 Di2 | SISL2 SRM | Enve 7.8/FFWD Falcon | Roval 321
T1 | P2Max Type S | Rolf Prima FX58/Zipp Super 9 Disc

sethjs
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Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

I'm talking about what Josh has talked about on his Marginal Gains podcast. He's said the Corsa tests extremely fast. He hasn't been clear on if he's been talking about the Corsa Speed or the regular Corsa. From what I've seen in pictures, the teams, when running Tubeless Corsas, are running the regular Corsa. But they may be using a non-publicly available Corsa Speed that's branded as a regular Corsa. Or some other formula entirely.

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JayDee81
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by JayDee81

I don't remember it well, but didn't he say something about the chevron pattern on corsas being very good for RR? He definitely said it's superb for wet conditions.

sethjs
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Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

He did talk about the "line" pattern that they use, which is similar to the tread patterns used on airplanes.

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JayDee81
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by JayDee81

sethjs wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:06 pm
He did talk about the "line" pattern that they use, which is similar to the tread patterns used on airplanes.
That't what I meant, just put a wrong name to it.

sethjs
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by sethjs

Yup I figured. The Corsa Control does actually have a chevron pattern on it. Over on the extreme shoulders.


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Sammutd88
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:14 am

by Sammutd88

Can anyone report actual measurements of the 28c and more importantly the 30c Corsa/Corsa Control on a 19mm inner/ 24mm outer width rim? Width obviously but height especially to see if they fit under rim brake calipers. Cheers

xav
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Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:59 pm
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by xav

sethjs wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:30 pm
Yup - that's right. My guess - and this is obviously only a guess - is that the rank order of the tires from the roller tests probably roughly plays out on the street - but probably at very different actual rolling resistance levels. But unfortunately, who knows.

That said, @xav would know more. I believe they use rollers and then test athletes on track / maybe street?
Yes that's what we see (in general), that the rank of the tyres remains the same and the difference remains the same between the tyres, but the actual Crr has a bit of an offset to it depending on the surface. The numbers we quote on the site are for a velodrome and you can add ~0.0025 for a tarmac surface, for example. Once you get into gravel levels of roughness it changes massively though so our focus is very much on the racing side of things.

It's really really important when peolpe are doing on road testing to understand the aerodynamics of different tyres as well as the Crr, otherwise you can get different results and attribute it to Crr rather than CdA if there is an effect there. So when we're really drilling down into tyre work we do roller testing first, then wind tunnel (to separate Crr from CdA) and then validation on the velodrome (both indoor and outdoor).

I did a post a while back explaining a little more how we do it:

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=161827&p=1576132#p1576132

Yoln
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:26 pm

by Yoln

Sammutd88 wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:36 pm
Can anyone report actual measurements of the 28c and more importantly the 30c Corsa/Corsa Control on a 19mm inner/ 24mm outer width rim? Width obviously but height especially to see if they fit under rim brake calipers. Cheers
28c Corsa control on 21/28mm inner/outer rims :

- 28.7mm wide
- 24.8mm high
Wilier “Cento Ramato“ : viewtopic.php?f=10&t=160943

Lynskey “the Do-it-all Helix” 🧬: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161550

RDY
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

xav wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:14 pm
sethjs wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:30 pm
Yup - that's right. My guess - and this is obviously only a guess - is that the rank order of the tires from the roller tests probably roughly plays out on the street - but probably at very different actual rolling resistance levels. But unfortunately, who knows.

That said, @xav would know more. I believe they use rollers and then test athletes on track / maybe street?
Yes that's what we see (in general), that the rank of the tyres remains the same and the difference remains the same between the tyres, but the actual Crr has a bit of an offset to it depending on the surface. The numbers we quote on the site are for a velodrome and you can add ~0.0025 for a tarmac surface, for example. Once you get into gravel levels of roughness it changes massively though so our focus is very much on the racing side of things.

It's really really important when peolpe are doing on road testing to understand the aerodynamics of different tyres as well as the Crr, otherwise you can get different results and attribute it to Crr rather than CdA if there is an effect there. So when we're really drilling down into tyre work we do roller testing first, then wind tunnel (to separate Crr from CdA) and then validation on the velodrome (both indoor and outdoor).

I did a post a while back explaining a little more how we do it:

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=161827&p=1576132#p1576132
Would love to see some tests for 28-32mm tyres - whether they be race, or slick gravel. Sometimes roads are just too shitty to justify 25s, even if you never stray from on-road.

by Weenie


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