Vittoria Graphene 2.0

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Hexsense
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

Meyercord wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 3:49 am
I’ve done it, I don’t enjoy pinch flats, or how the bike feels in corners below about 80.
Sound like wider internal rim width or narrower tire is needed to help the handling. But since you already have a lot of pinch flat, then narrower tire is definitely not the way. While the new Roval CL and CLX 32,50,64 are nicely wide. Unfortunately the old CL60 etc. are not.
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Mr.Gib
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Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

I am headed off to do some serious distance in central Italy where a good portion of our route will be on pretty rough roads including some gravel climbs. I had settled on Vittora Corsa G 28mm original version because that's all that was available when I was preparing the bike. However in the last few days I have had a bit of dread about the fate of the rear tire. I'll be covering 2000 km and 50,000 meters in 10 days, and there is no way the rear would last the whole trip, even without cuts or punctures. On level ground sure, but with only up or down and much of it steep, 1000 km would be about the limit for that tire under my 170 pounds. So I grabbed 30mm Corsa Control. Not happy about the extra weight or rolling resistance, but the thicker tread gives me a better chance of avoiding punctures and having to swap to a new rear halfway through. I'll keep the regular Corsa on the front. This will be a serious torture test for this tire. I'll report back with results.
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Measures 31.2mm on 22mm internal rims at 70 psi. (I'll be running around 60 - 65 psi.) Still respectable clearance on my rim brake Col Slayer.
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wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

by Weenie


zefs
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Did a few rides on the Corsa G 2.0 TLR 25c, they measure ~27mm on 17c wheels (Ksyrium UST). They are supple (feels like having ~15psi less vs 120tpi tires) they corner great and roll well. One of the tires was defective out of the box (leaks air) so using it with a tube.
They went on by hand (a little tighter than Hutchinson) but need air compressor to seat them.

sethjs
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

Update on the Corsa TLR 25s I mounted a few days after they were released. I just binned the first one (rear) with 980 miles on it.

It had started to cut up a bit. No big deal. But then I noticed it started "eating" sealant when a small hole didn't seal itself just ~3 weeks after I'd added 40ml of orange seal. All gone!

When I took the tire off it was crazy supple. I suspect it was slowing letting sealant leak through the sidewalls.

I haven't check sealant retention on the front. But it visually looks to be in much better shape so I'm keeping it on.

This new one I just mounted seated much easier than the one it's replacing. Might be because I replaced the tape with two layers of the Silca stuff. Might be because the new one was manufactured 2-19 and the original was an 11-18. Perhaps they made a running change?

Pics attached of what it looked like unmounted before heading to the bin.

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zefs
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

It's a high psi tire (130 max, although wheel's max should be used instead) so that doesn't help with sealant either I guess. What pressures were you running?

Also, did you use an air compressor to seal the tire after you added sealant? That could have dried it.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

I have the gen 1 Corsa G+, 25mm (tubular). I usually give it 100-105psi rear and about 90psi front (i'm weight pending 82-85Kgs).
But i have to say, at times this tire feels mushy on the rear, but not on the front.
I guess it's due to the side walls?
I don't plan to run Vittoria next time. There are to many tires out there to try.
I have a set of Wolfpack coming in later on.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

sethjs
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

zefs wrote:It's a high psi tire (130 max, although wheel's max should be used instead) so that doesn't help with sealant either I guess. What pressures were you running?

Also, did you use an air compressor to seal the tire after you added sealant? That could have dried it.
Yes on the air compressor. But I always use one and don't immediately have a loss of sealant.

68 front. 78 rear. And they get reasonably abused. Mostly climbing / descending in SF and Marin. Crap roads. And I'd guess 350 of the 980 miles were in the rain.


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zefs
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 8:11 am
I have the gen 1 Corsa G+, 25mm (tubular). I usually give it 100-105psi rear and about 90psi front (i'm weight pending 82-85Kgs).
But i have to say, at times this tire feels mushy on the rear, but not on the front.
I guess it's due to the side walls?
I don't plan to run Vittoria next time. There are to many tires out there to try.
I have a set of Wolfpack coming in later on.
Probably weight distribution making the rear mushier.
sethjs wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 12:29 pm
Yes on the air compressor. But I always use one and don't immediately have a loss of sealant.

68 front. 78 rear. And they get reasonably abused. Mostly climbing / descending in SF and Marin. Crap roads. And I'd guess 350 of the 980 miles were in the rain.


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I always seal the tire first without sealant, deflate and add sealant in.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2671
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Zefs, possible, but these are the first tires i have had this effect on
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D


Nohands83
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:41 am

by Nohands83

Very! I’ve heard first hand that aerocoach will be doing some of their own testing on the new speed very soon. Hopefully they’ll be testing the normal TLR version as well.
emcardle wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:13 pm
Very disapointing!

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... -graphene2

sethjs
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

by sethjs

That contradicts what Josh Portner had said around rolling resistance of the TLR version of the Corsa. He's said it was ~4 watts better than the tubulars the pros use. But perhaps that's a slightly different version.

I do wonder how much the drum test of rolling resistance equates to real world.


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1415chris
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Location: Surrey UK

by 1415chris

I always keep asking the same question. I don't get how 110tpi vulcanised tyre, which is stiffer and harsher than 320tpi tyre can have better rolling resistance. Mybe I miss something, but to me rolling resistance is the amount energy eaten by the fackt the tyre deforms when rolling. Obviously the less soft one would result in more losses in its deformation process than the softer tyre, isn't it?

And again clinchers vs tubeless. Ok you gain on not having extra material to be deform in the form of inner tube, but tubelles tyres usually have much stiffer casing. Take the new Conti 5k, 110tpi vs 60tpi and apparently the second one is faster.....?

Mr.Gib
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

Those are not good numbers relative to the best. Bicyclerollingresistance is influential and sales will be affected. It's a bit of a shame as this is a nice riding tire.

I'll repeat the often heard refrain, how close is the drum test to on the road performance? Someone needs to create an indoor laboratory with different road surfaces and conduct closely controlled roll down tests on a real bike with a manikin. Been done outside with real people but too many variables.

In the rainy stage at the Giro a few days ago, Roglic use Corsa Control tubulars. So he didn't seem too concerned about the extra rolling resistance.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

1415chris wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:29 pm
I always keep asking the same question. I don't get how 110tpi vulcanised tyre, which is stiffer and harsher than 320tpi tyre can have better rolling resistance. Mybe I miss something, but to me rolling resistance is the amount energy eaten by the fackt the tyre deforms when rolling. Obviously the less soft one would result in more losses in its deformation process than the softer tyre, isn't it?

And again clinchers vs tubeless. Ok you gain on not having extra material to be deform in the form of inner tube, but tubelles tyres usually have much stiffer casing. Take the new Conti 5k, 110tpi vs 60tpi and apparently the second one is faster.....?
That’s not how it works, I am afraid. This is a very good video that ‘splains what we are dealing with here. https://youtu.be/oV_6u4Z5p-c

There are limits to how much you can “tune” the compound to have both low RR and high grip though, as I think we are seeing with at least anectodal evidence of new Conti tyres having a bit less grip than the old ones (but still seems ok). The hope with Vittoria’s 4c (4-compound construction) is that they should have been able to capture the high rolling resistance/high grip compound and the low RR/low grip in the same tyre, but just in different places. Unfortunately, it looks like they got it wrong - either the central low RR compound is not efficient or it simply is not wide enough, such that when tyre deforms under load, the high RR side compounds come into contact with the road even if the bike is not leaning into a turn, and just slow things down. I suspect the latter has at least some role, because in Jarno’s charts you can see that the gap to other tyres gets bigger as pressures drop (lower pressure = more deformation = more contact area for high RR compounds).

by Weenie


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