Vittoria Graphene 2.0

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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refthimos
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 6:02 pm

by refthimos

Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:33 pm
It sounds like Vittoria re shuffled their tyre range a bit with the Corsa 2.0s. The G+ 2.0 has become tougher and more durable, and but with lower crr and Speed 2.0 has been slotted in near where the G+ 1.0 was, but probably not quite as tough and a bit faster in return.
Actually the G2.0 version of the Corsa Speed appears to be much more durable compared to the initial G1.0 version. Crr only decreased a bit with the G2.0, so either Vitorria ran up against the limits of rolling resistance reduction or they heard rider feedback re: the fragility of the G1.0 Speeds and prioritized extra durability over even more speed.
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aeroisnteverything
Posts: 893
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

refthimos wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:53 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:33 pm
It sounds like Vittoria re shuffled their tyre range a bit with the Corsa 2.0s. The G+ 2.0 has become tougher and more durable, and but with lower crr and Speed 2.0 has been slotted in near where the G+ 1.0 was, but probably not quite as tough and a bit faster in return.
Actually the G2.0 version of the Corsa Speed appears to be much more durable compared to the initial G1.0 version. Crr only decreased a bit with the G2.0, so either Vitorria ran up against the limits of rolling resistance reduction or they heard rider feedback re: the fragility of the G1.0 Speeds and prioritized extra durability over even more speed.
You say a little faster, but it's 10%. 10% improvement is a lot. If they only made that same improvement from G1.0 to 2.0 with the regular Corsa tyres, rather than regressing...

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Nickldn
Posts: 1868
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

aeroisnteverything wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:57 pm
refthimos wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:53 pm
Nickldn wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:33 pm
It sounds like Vittoria re shuffled their tyre range a bit with the Corsa 2.0s. The G+ 2.0 has become tougher and more durable, and but with lower crr and Speed 2.0 has been slotted in near where the G+ 1.0 was, but probably not quite as tough and a bit faster in return.
Actually the G2.0 version of the Corsa Speed appears to be much more durable compared to the initial G1.0 version. Crr only decreased a bit with the G2.0, so either Vitorria ran up against the limits of rolling resistance reduction or they heard rider feedback re: the fragility of the G1.0 Speeds and prioritized extra durability over even more speed.
You say a little faster, but it's 10%. 10% improvement is a lot. If they only made that same improvement from G1.0 to 2.0 with the regular Corsa tyres, rather than regressing...
With the G+ 2.0 I think Vittoria made a conscious decision to trade crr for additional toughness. This may be because the G+ 1.0 was always considered fast, but prone to flatting.

The G+ 2.0 is a better general purpose road riding tyre now and probably has a broader audience as a result. But it's no longer the tyre of choice for the crr weenie brigade and TT crowd. That would be the Corsa Speed 2.0 now.

I'm on my last G+ 1.0 tub and can't source anymore, so I'll try a Speed 2.0 next time, I hope it's comparable to the G+ 1.0. If I can get 1,500 miles out of it on the front wheel then I'll be happy.
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aeroisnteverything
Posts: 893
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

Nickldn wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:33 pm

With the G+ 2.0 I think Vittoria made a conscious decision to trade crr for additional toughness. This may be because the G+ 1.0 was always considered fast, but prone to flatting.

The G+ 2.0 is a better general purpose road riding tyre now and probably has a broader audience as a result. But it's no longer the tyre of choice for the crr weenie brigade and TT crowd. That would be the Corsa Speed 2.0 now.

I'm on my last G+ 1.0 tub and can't source anymore, so I'll try a Speed 2.0 next time, I hope it's comparable to the G+ 1.0. If I can get 1,500 miles out of it on the front wheel then I'll be happy.
TBH I think they just got it wrong. And it's no particular shade on Vittoria - this stuff appears to be geniuinnely hard. They claimed to have reduced Crr across the range when the tyre was released. But the claim only panned out for the Corsa Speed and not for the other models (and then it also turns out that tubeless version performs even worse relatively speaking). They have different compounds on the shoulder and the center thread of the Corsa and Corsa Control tyres, with the center thread compound supposedly engineered for low Crr, while the shoulder compound is for grip. Well, the grip is excellent. Crr - not so much. So the most obvious hypoethesis is that the shoulder compound is applied too close to the center and contacts the surface too much when rolling straight and the bike isn't yet in a lean. Perhaps if they moved it out to shoulders more, the tyre would roll faster, still have good cornering grip, but inferior braking performance. I would argue that the tyre that is specifically performing not as it should be is Corsa: it's Crr is basically the same as Corsa Conntrol, and that is pretty clearly not how it should be.

The other possibility is that tyre construction isn't optimal, particularly on tubeless - this is an aspect that Goodyear also seems to have gotten a bit off, given that their clincher+latex also outperforms the tubeless version.

Last thing I'll say is that it's a shame we don't hear from Vittoria directly about this. With JV on this board, we have pretty good insight into Goodyear. But it would be equally interesting to hear what Vittoria think about Crr tests. We keep referring to steel drum testing as though it's a good real world proxy. Maybe it is and maybe it is not. Realistically, it's all we have, plus Aerocoach validation on the velodrome, but obviously velodrome surface is also not exactly like chipseal. But what if Vittoria had a different test protocol internally that showed the results they actually wanted? Would be good to know what that protocol was.

Mcdeez
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:40 pm

by Mcdeez

mrlobber wrote:Corsa Speeds G2.0 are generally good for ~1000km of riding for an average 65-75kg rider. Go beyond that mileage, and the risks of puncture significantly increase.
Youre talking about clincher or tubless?

mrlobber
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by mrlobber

Corsa Speeds are only available as tubeless, I haven't seen any clincher-only version of that tyre.
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Mcdeez
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:40 pm

by Mcdeez

mrlobber wrote:Corsa Speeds are only available as tubeless, I haven't seen any clincher-only version of that tyre.
Good to know,really debating if i stay gp5000 tl or corsa speed

denbrewers
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:35 pm

by denbrewers

This is the Corsa Control G2.0 tubular version 25-28mm, black
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Don't know if anyone cares, but i've been riding turbo cotton and corsa g2 back and forth, and subjectively i prefer corsa g2.
I don't perceive turbo cotton as better on either speed, grip, durability or ride feel. I would say same or + towards corsa g2.
Durability (puncture protection) might even be ++ for corsa g2.
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raffyyy
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:58 am

by raffyyy

wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:07 pm
Don't know if anyone cares, but i've been riding turbo cotton and corsa g2 back and forth, and subjectively i prefer corsa g2.
I don't perceive turbo cotton as better on either speed, grip, durability or ride feel. I would say same or + towards corsa g2.
Durability (puncture protection) might even be ++ for corsa g2.
hey do you think a 28mm in the front and a 30mm in the back (corsa g2) offers more grip than 26mm turbo cotton front and rear?

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

raffyyy wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:59 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:07 pm
Don't know if anyone cares, but i've been riding turbo cotton and corsa g2 back and forth, and subjectively i prefer corsa g2.
I don't perceive turbo cotton as better on either speed, grip, durability or ride feel. I would say same or + towards corsa g2.
Durability (puncture protection) might even be ++ for corsa g2.
hey do you think a 28mm in the front and a 30mm in the back (corsa g2) offers more grip than 26mm turbo cotton front and rear?
Short answer is yes :beerchug:
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

madik
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:44 pm

by madik

Been running Corsa Control G2+ TLR and I am satisfied with them. Can't really feel difference in grip or rolling ressistance to my last two tires (newest Schwalbe Pro One and GP5000 TL). Probably the Vittorias are a little more confortable but not with a big margin. But one thinkg I really love about them is much lower water spraying on wet roads. I think its maybe 70% less of watter spray going on in comparison to Schwalbe and Conti tires. Riding with them in worse conditions is certainly less of pain. good winter tires :)
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JayDee81
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Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by JayDee81

I am confused. I've just fittend normal Corsa Control's G2 (tube type) and it has tubeless ready written on it. Weight is 250 g for 25c, so it's not the TLR version. So I guess you don't have to get the heavier TLR version if you want to run them tubeless?

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MrCurrieinahurry
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by MrCurrieinahurry

Pics?
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JayDee81
Posts: 407
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Location: Czech Republic

by JayDee81

I bought these 2 tires more than a year ago, so they are not a recent batch.
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