Vittoria Graphene 2.0

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

On the TLR version I tried at least, they didn't feel that slow. I was using 70-80psi today and tire was faster than the Hutchinson Performance (which should have similar RR) on the same road I test tires. Maybe they need to bed in? seems stupid to release a slower tire that is also more expensive than previous version.

Based on that test the TLR version will probably be 2-3w slower per wheel vs the G5KTL.

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

zefs wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:35 pm
Something seems off. On the TLR version I tried at least, they didn't feel that slow.
Well, unfortunately the difference in rolling resistance between a good tire and a better tire is beyond the capability of accurate human perception.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

by Weenie


1415chris
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Location: Surrey UK

by 1415chris

@aeroisnteverything,
Thanks for this, but that just confirmes that my understanding of rolling resistance was not that bad at all, even more, it was spot on ;)
We are still talking about the lost energy when the whole tyre's structure deforms, not only the compound. What about the casing?
Surely what we can observe when the tyres deforms, is that the majority of the movement is within the casing, not the rubber tread.
I'm not saying the tread is not important, but just looking at how the tyre deforms, to me the casing plays a bigger role. Maybe it is not as important as I thought it is?
I don't have big experiance with riding vulcanised tyres, as my tubs and clinchers are and have been for long time high tpi glued tyres. Once decided to try Conti 4k, but it was harsher than my other clinchers and tubs.

zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

Mr.Gib wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm
zefs wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:35 pm
Something seems off. On the TLR version I tried at least, they didn't feel that slow.
Well, unfortunately the difference in rolling resistance between a good tire and a better tire is beyond the capability of accurate human perception.
That's true, also the strong point of the Corsas is cornering grip and suppleness so my guess is they will perform better when racing on the wet vs GP5K, maybe on criteriums as well.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

1415chris wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm
I don't have big experiance with riding vulcanised tyres, as my tubs and clinchers are and have been for long time high tpi glued tyres. Once decided to try Conti 4k, but it was harsher than my other clinchers and tubs.
Conti claims the 5K rides better than the 4K. I had thought it was a bogus marketing claim. When I got the 5K the very first impression I got was the improved ride. It's like riding with 10psi less. I was quite amazed and pleasantly surprised. If you haven't ridden the 5K you should give it a try. You'll be surprised just how good the 5K rides. I have the tubed version. I imagine the TL is even better.

dim
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:15 pm
1415chris wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm
I don't have big experiance with riding vulcanised tyres, as my tubs and clinchers are and have been for long time high tpi glued tyres. Once decided to try Conti 4k, but it was harsher than my other clinchers and tubs.
Conti claims the 5K rides better than the 4K. I had thought it was a bogus marketing claim. When I got the 5K the very first impression I got was the improved ride. It's like riding with 10psi less. I was quite amazed and pleasantly surprised. If you haven't ridden the 5K you should give it a try. You'll be surprised just how good the 5K rides. I have the tubed version. I imagine the TL is even better.
spot on ....

I have the tubeless version in 25 .... amazing tyres, over 2200km so far on crappy roads, in the wet and dry and zero punctures so far, good grip and the tyres look like there is a lot of miles still left in them

a few hours ago, I ordered the GP5000 clincher version in 32 wide for a touring bike that I bought .... I rate the Conti 5000 highly
Trek Emonda SL6
Miyata One Thousand

Mr.Gib
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Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: eh?

by Mr.Gib

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:15 pm
1415chris wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm
I don't have big experiance with riding vulcanised tyres, as my tubs and clinchers are and have been for long time high tpi glued tyres. Once decided to try Conti 4k, but it was harsher than my other clinchers and tubs.
When I got the 5K the very first impression I got was the improved ride. It's like riding with 10psi less. I was quite amazed and pleasantly surprised. If you haven't ridden the 5K you should give it a try. You'll be surprised just how good the 5K rides. I have the tubed version. I imagine the TL is even better.
Tubeless may not ride as well as the tubed. The good quality ride comes from more supple sidewalls. The tubeless version I assume is more rigid. This may have more of a negative impact on ride quality than the presence of an inner tube in the tubed version, particularely if latex is used. I have never had a tubeless tire approach the ride quality, comfort, and road buzz killing ability of a high tpi cotton tire with latex inner tube. No first hand experience on the GP5000 so YMMV.

A side note about the more supple sidewalls of the 5000, a group of guys doing some big miles on bad Belgian roads experience a surprising number of sidewall tears, failures, etc. Granted they were on some broken and unfinished roads and of course cobbles. The improved ride quality may come at a price. It is noteworthy that these same people did the same trip last year on GP4000 and did not have any issues worth noting.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

defride
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 4:26 pm

by defride

Posted this in the wheels forum, here's a copy for those interested in the 2.0 tubs

I had a big blowout on a G+ rear tub the other day, haven't investigated properly but seems the latex inner exploded. Hairy at 40 mph down hill in a group but stayed up.

Been pleased with the G+ tubs, adequate grip and rolling resistance, not as good as my Schwable Pro clinchers but crucially for tubs excellent puncture resistance. 11000km on less than perfect roads and 4 punctures, 2 were tires that were due replacement, one a problem with the valve, then the blow out. Not bad. Much better than the G+ clinchers which punctured easily.

Looking for a replacement for the blow out I noticed that G 2.0 had been released. Better grip, rolling and puncture resistance? What's not to like on the face of it, except price. Cheapest I could find was £80 each. Oh well, if they do as well as the G+ probably worth it.

Stretched over a couple of days then mounted them. No problems. One nice change, all the G+ I ran had a raised area around the valve that required some careful trimming of the tape to get them to seat properly around the valve. No problem with the 2.0's

Image

First ride yesterday and immediately noticeable is the improved grip. Braking is a good deal better, had to be careful on the G+ braking hard while descending as the rear slides quite easily. The 2.0's are far more confidence inspiring, almost like getting an improved pair of brakes. You can also push the front into corners and feel them grip where the G+ I'd be taking more care. They feel fast, much like the Pro's. As for puncture resistance, we'll see, fingers crossed. That said we crossed a fair bit of new chip seal that would cut some tyres to shreads and nothing on these.

As for weight, this includes the rubber band and valve extender so take off circa 5g (25s)

Image

Very impressed thus far

1415chris
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:59 am
Location: Surrey UK

by 1415chris


Mr.Gib wrote:
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:15 pm
1415chris wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm
I don't have big experiance with riding vulcanised tyres, as my tubs and clinchers are and have been for long time high tpi glued tyres. Once decided to try Conti 4k, but it was harsher than my other clinchers and tubs.
When I got the 5K the very first impression I got was the improved ride. It's like riding with 10psi less. I was quite amazed and pleasantly surprised. If you haven't ridden the 5K you should give it a try. You'll be surprised just how good the 5K rides. I have the tubed version. I imagine the TL is even better.
Tubeless may not ride as well as the tubed. The good quality ride comes from more supple sidewalls. The tubeless version I assume is more rigid. This may have more of a negative impact on ride quality than the presence of an inner tube in the tubed version, particularely if latex is used. I have never had a tubeless tire approach the ride quality, comfort, and road buzz killing ability of a high tpi cotton tire with latex inner tube. No first hand experience on the GP5000 so YMMV.

A side note about the more supple sidewalls of the 5000, a group of guys doing some big miles on bad Belgian roads experience a surprising number of sidewall tears, failures, etc. Granted they were on some broken and unfinished roads and of course cobbles. The improved ride quality may come at a price. It is noteworthy that these same people did the same trip last year on GP4000 and did not have any issues worth noting.
Heh, I don't want to sound like somebody bashing Conti, but since you mentioned it, the only two road sidewall cuts I have ever had they were on these two bloody Conti 4k tyres :) 5k is apparently even lighter, meaning less materail on it....
Going this direction I would prefer Corsa Speed or Turbo Cottons. But it jus me not being attracted to vulcanised tyres ;)

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cveks
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:15 pm
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by cveks

I was unable to mount Graphene 2.0 clinchers on my Novatec Jetfly wheelset. Simply it wont jump at the end of rim feels like too stiff or smaller than wheel is.

aeroisnteverything
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

by aeroisnteverything

1415chris wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm
@aeroisnteverything,
Thanks for this, but that just confirmes that my understanding of rolling resistance was not that bad at all, even more, it was spot on ;)
We are still talking about the lost energy when the whole tyre's structure deforms, not only the compound. What about the casing?
Surely what we can observe when the tyres deforms, is that the majority of the movement is within the casing, not the rubber tread.
I'm not saying the tread is not important, but just looking at how the tyre deforms, to me the casing plays a bigger role. Maybe it is not as important as I thought it is?
I don't have big experiance with riding vulcanised tyres, as my tubs and clinchers are and have been for long time high tpi glued tyres. Once decided to try Conti 4k, but it was harsher than my other clinchers and tubs.
I think the point is just that something that feels supple does not imply it will be fast. A low RR tyre will not absorb energy from deformation/ convert it into hear, and will instead return the compression with a “bounce” of nearly the same force. That goes for both the compound and the casing. That bounce, depending on frequency, might feel like a harsh riding tyre. Then again, it might not, if the tyre is like that shown in the video with and absorbs the high frequency road surface buzz, while being “bouncy” at 4-5hz frequency (which is how fast our wheels are turning).

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4178
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Just mounted a pair of Corsa TLRs to my 5.6s. Went on slightly easier than GP5K TLs, but as others have mentioned, they are very hard to seat...this is the first tire I've installed that absolutely needed a compressor. The crack/ping when they seat is deafening.

The tread is obviously quite thin. I don't expect the tread to last anywhere near as long as GP5Ks.

zefs
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:40 pm

by zefs

They better last since RR wise they are not as fast (judging by the non-TLR test) as claimed. Personally I liked the suppleness and speed at the pressures I am using and I see it being popular with racers as they corner great.

Meyercord
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 6:11 am

by Meyercord

zefs wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:55 am
They better last since RR wise they are not as fast (judging by the non-TLR test) as claimed. Personally I liked the suppleness and speed at the pressures I am using and I see it being popular with racers as they corner great.
They do feel and grip great. If BRR is to be believed the s works turbo cotton is a better race day tire.

RocketRacing
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... -graphene2

I felt like i was checki g weekly for this review. Glad it is out. I figured they would keep pase to conti... but the new 2.0 tire is slower than the old compound. I am glad i went gp5000.

Reminds me of schwalbe saying the new addict tires were longer wearing, faster, and better puncture resistance. They were tough but slower than the pacestar compound prior.

Tires: low crr or durability/puncture resistance. Pick one.

by Weenie


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