Vittoria G+ Tubular Issue

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Kayrehn
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by Kayrehn

Valbrona wrote:From the picture, the rim looks wildly too wide for the tubular.
Might sound crazy, but Easton actually recommend 23mm tires for these 28mm width wheels for max aero benefits Image

Anyway, I was about to change out the tire after riding it one last time today but I actually managed to puncture it 20km in running across something sharp, oh well. I have a pair spare and will just finish them.

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mattr
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by mattr

I've had this as well, couple of challenge open tubulars with the tread peeling away from the casing. Stuck them back on with patch adhesive and wrapped a toestrap round the affected area overnight (Was on a training camp so had to make do).
By the time i got the bikes back into the workshop a week later it took an age to actually find where the repair was, so i left the tyres on until they wore out......
completely and utterly unrelated.

by Weenie


Bridgeman
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by Bridgeman

To be clear, we are talking about 2 seperate issues, tread seperation and casing failure. I'm not sure if they are related but in the case of tread seperation, I've also glued the small areas I've seen with excellent results.

As for the casing failure and large tread seration, there comes a time where it should be declared a real manufacturing problem and take it to Vittoria for a solution once and for all.

I can tell you with certainty, I would not want to be on that tire doing 50+ downhill in the shape it was when I called Vittoria. Either they are very good with customer service or they may know there is a problem, as in my case, there was no question about replacement.

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

That actually has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

mattr
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by mattr

Bridgeman wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:07 pm
I can tell you with certainty, I would not want to be on that tire doing 50+ downhill in the shape it was when I called Vittoria. Either they are very good with customer service or they may know there is a problem, as in my case, there was no question about replacement.
I guess it depends on when you notice, both mine were only lifting about 20% of the way across the tread and about 100-120mm along the circumference of the tyre. Once that patch gets bigger and starts flapping around, it *could* possibly start to pull on other bits of the case/tread interface that are actually glued properly and peel something important off. Lots of adhesives/materials don't like the peeling action that you'd see.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Kayrehn wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:47 pm
Valbrona wrote:From the picture, the rim looks wildly too wide for the tubular.
Might sound crazy, but Easton actually recommend 23mm tires for these 28mm width wheels for max aero benefits Image

Anyway, I was about to change out the tire after riding it one last time today but I actually managed to puncture it 20km in running across something sharp, oh well. I have a pair spare and will just finish them.

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That is very true! I mailed Easton and asked, they told me the rim shape is designed around 22-23mm width and that is when the "aero effect" is at it's best.
When the phantom rim hit the market, it was the widest of them all.
These wheels (tubular) with Veloflex Carbon (23mm) ride so nice....
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Call them back and ask if they’ve designed the rim bed radius specifically for 22-23mm “tubular” tires. Depending on who you get on the other end, there may be some head scratching going on followed by “whaaddaywmean?”
The whole rim tire aero interface applies much more to clincher setups than tubular. The tubular tire is always going to have that bit of “unaero” gap where it leaves the rim bed because of its completely round cross sectional shape. Versus the clincher, where the sidewalls will get jammed up against the rim sidewall and depending on the size of the tire and rim combo, may take more or less a straight shot up from the rim instead (more “aero”). I don’t know if Easton has designed their rim bed radius around a 22-23mm tubular, but I also suspect that whoever you spoke with may be just regurgitating the clincher aero/rim interface partyline.
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Bridgeman
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by Bridgeman

Calnago wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:10 pm
Call them back and ask if they’ve designed the rim bed radius specifically for 22-23mm “tubular” tires. Depending on who you get on the other end, there may be some head scratching going on followed by “whaaddaywmean?”
The whole rim tire aero interface applies much more to clincher setups than tubular. The tubular tire is always going to have that bit of “unaero” gap where it leaves the rim bed because of its completely round cross sectional shape. Versus the clincher, where the sidewalls will get jammed up against the rim sidewall and depending on the size of the tire and rim combo, may take more or less a straight shot up from the rim instead (more “aero”). I don’t know if Easton has designed their rim bed radius around a 22-23mm tubular, but I also suspect that whoever you spoke with may be just regurgitating the clincher aero/rim interface partyline.
I can't find the video, but someone tried applying black silicone adhesive to the gap between the rim and tangentially to the tire. I've wanted to try this but never got around to it. Don't know about aero effects, but one benefit might be to provide a barrier, thereby protecting tubular glue joint, which over time seems to degrade through exposure. That's a different thread.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Yeah... a silicone bead would be a disaster in the event of a flat. I think that whole rim tire interface is way overhyped. There was the Mavic strip as well which was ruled illegal by UCI. I installed some of those before... just a round circular plastic clip type of affair that fits in that gap. Wouldn’t want it on any of my wheels. I wouldn’t want any more “support” on the edges of my tubulars than the glue bond. I want them to be free to conform as much as possible to the contours of the road and the forces that get applied while turning, leaning etc. Otherwise, they’d be acting like clinchers.
Last edited by Calnago on Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

When i mailed Easton, i made clear it was only the tubular version i ment.
The nice thing with the tub version is they're light, while the clinchers are rather heavy.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

Bridgeman
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by Bridgeman

Was talking with a friend yesterday and he had the same issue with one of his G+ tires, so that's yet another occurrance.

I wonder how widespread this is/was, and if part of the V 2.0 effort is meant to address the casing problem.

vanillaflyweight
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by vanillaflyweight

Had the same tread separation issue with a pair of turbo cottons. Seems like the glue is the issue.

Bridgeman
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by Bridgeman

Quick update; Vittoria replaced the deformed tubular. The replacement is the same as the original, and about 6 or so of a batch I have stored.

Hoping they all wear out of natural causes.

Bridgeman
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by Bridgeman

So, guess what happen today on a super aggressive ride in the middle of the group?
Casing failure. Not fun.
I'm going to try and get the batch I have replaced. Makes me wonder about the replacement tire I just received.
Safe to say, with the history that's come forth so far, there is a problem.
Ref.; 25mm@just under 90psi, rear tire.
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Calnago
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by Calnago

That kinda looks like a rim/tire issue, the same issue that ENVE is getting a lot of flack for right now. I sort of assumed you were talking about a separation of the tread from the casing, not the casing being torn. What rims are those? Do they have a sharp edge around the bead on the inside. That may be your issue more than the tire. There’s a lot of finger pointing going on right now between ENVE and the tire manufacturers. Nevertheless, check the edge... maybe take some sand paper to it to smooth things out if you can.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


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