Can THM Clavicula SE use on Campy H11 system?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Post Reply
takashi24
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

by takashi24

Hi.

Currently I using my Clavicula SE on my Campy SR mech. However I planning upgrade my frame from rim brake to disc brake as I going use the bike to touring style more often.

Since to save cost; I wondering I could use back my THM crank? Together mech SR FD & SR RD. All I need just purchase the new H11 shifter, disc brake caliper and the disc rotor.

I read somewhere Campy H11 crank has a bit different dimension compare to rim brake version. I wonder we still able to adjust the FD to compensate the difference if using the THM cranks.

Hope to receive you guys input as it will be waste unable to carry the THM crank to my new disc frame. I love the THM lightweight and the crank finishing.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2949
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

The difference between H11 crankset (disc) and the common rim brake cranksets, is chainline.
The chainline is wider on the H11 crank. So as the THM crank are "old", 43.5mm chainline, there will be a difference.
However, it should work. But according to specs, it will be less optimal.

This is a copy from Campagnolo:

As the geometries and spacing of disc-brake frames for are very different to rim-brake frames, the design of the drivetrain and the chain line must take account of these differences to ensure optimal performance.

Campagnolo engineers have developed the H11 crankset to integrate perfectly with Super Record™, Record™ and Chorus™ drivetrains, ensuring crisp, clean and precise shifting, as in all its other rim-brake groupsets. The new design of the crankset offers superb precision for 142 mm rear spacing, without altering the Q-factor.ne, it will not be same as the new H11 crank.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


morrisond
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

It also depends on how long your chainstays are. If your new disc bike is more Gravelish with 425-430 mm chain stays vs 405-410ish on your old bike (assuming it's an Race frame) - the geometry of the chainline should be fine. Maybe not perfect but close to Perfect.

I'm running the same set-up you are contemplating on a Disc bike with 415mm chainstays - it works perfectly. H11 Shifters, SR FD and RD - SR 52/36 Crank

Alexandrumarian
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:34 pm
Location: Romania

by Alexandrumarian

If you like your current frame, consider changing the fork. That's my plan at least. I see little advantage on having disc in the rear....

2old4this
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:26 am

by 2old4this

One more point to consider: warranty.

I seem to remember one board member posting something about Campagnolo warranty getting void if/when a different chainring is used.

takashi24
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

by takashi24

morrisond wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:49 pm
It also depends on how long your chainstays are. If your new disc bike is more Gravelish with 425-430 mm chain stays vs 405-410ish on your old bike (assuming it's an Race frame) - the geometry of the chainline should be fine. Maybe not perfect but close to Perfect.

I'm running the same set-up you are contemplating on a Disc bike with 415mm chainstays - it works perfectly. H11 Shifters, SR FD and RD - SR 52/36 Crank
Great to hear it still compatible even though not perfect. As long still works I very happy already. At least save some money till the next upgrade to 12speed SR when THM launch a 12 speed compatible crank.

FYI, I will be doing a custom geometry frame with short 405mm chainstay length but with shorter reach and higher stack + 28mm tires to improve the comfortness.
Just dont want feel too much different from my Dogma F8 (old bike). Since very used to the riding characteristic; just want to squeeze additional comfort from the next new disc bike.

takashi24
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

by takashi24

2old4this wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:01 pm
One more point to consider: warranty.

I seem to remember one board member posting something about Campagnolo warranty getting void if/when a different chainring is used.
My SR parts already more than 3 years so I guess I wont be care about the warranty.

takashi24
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

by takashi24

wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:52 pm
The difference between H11 crankset (disc) and the common rim brake cranksets, is chainline.
The chainline is wider on the H11 crank. So as the THM crank are "old", 43.5mm chainline, there will be a difference.
However, it should work. But according to specs, it will be less optimal.

Hi. Any idea what is the new H11 crankset chainline value? Curious how much the value in difference.

I guess since I not in racing event; less optimium wont hurt too much. I might feel less happy with the miss shift problem but I think I can live with it. :D

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2949
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

It's usually between 45-46mm on the new cranks made for the 12*142 dropout.
Eriksen cycles made a special spider optimized for 12*142.
This spider has + 46mm chainline. I use it with Shimano Di2 on my gravel bike.
The 45mm chainline is made to work with both 130mm spacing and 12*142.
Rotor Aldhu is an example. They implemented an interchangeable axle.
Either you go for 43.5mm chainline or 46mm.
Personally i feel for that THM is not optimal. Even previous version of Etap uses 45mm chainline.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

morrisond
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

takashi24 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:04 am
morrisond wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:49 pm
It also depends on how long your chainstays are. If your new disc bike is more Gravelish with 425-430 mm chain stays vs 405-410ish on your old bike (assuming it's an Race frame) - the geometry of the chainline should be fine. Maybe not perfect but close to Perfect.

I'm running the same set-up you are contemplating on a Disc bike with 415mm chainstays - it works perfectly. H11 Shifters, SR FD and RD - SR 52/36 Crank
Great to hear it still compatible even though not perfect. As long still works I very happy already. At least save some money till the next upgrade to 12speed SR when THM launch a 12 speed compatible crank.

FYI, I will be doing a custom geometry frame with short 405mm chainstay length but with shorter reach and higher stack + 28mm tires to improve the comfortness.
Just dont want feel too much different from my Dogma F8 (old bike). Since very used to the riding characteristic; just want to squeeze additional comfort from the next new disc bike.
Sounds good - it should be fine.

Be careful with 405mm CS and 28mm tires - depending on the tire and your Seat Angle you might run into clearance issues. I've been there and done that with a Gp4 28mm that measures more like 31-32mm won't fit.

If you are doing custom what fork are you going to use? If it's an ENVE RD Disc that has clearance for up to 34mm in front (32mm Official) so it will be able to take the new GP5000 32mm.

It would be a shame for the back not be able to take what the front can. You don't have to run 32mm but it would be a shame not to have the option.

You really won't be able to tell the difference between 405 and 410-415mm Chainstays assuming the same front end. However you will really appreciate the ability to take bigger tires. Especially if you are touring and doing a lot longer rides. For me they are much more mentally relaxing as your bike doesn't get thrown off line by crappy pavement/cracks/grates and you can handle mild gravel as well.

According to Bicycletirerollingresistance they aren't any slower either....https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... comparison

takashi24
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

by takashi24

wheelsONfire wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:02 pm
It's usually between 45-46mm on the new cranks made for the 12*142 dropout.
Eriksen cycles made a special spider optimized for 12*142.
This spider has + 46mm chainline. I use it with Shimano Di2 on my gravel bike.
The 45mm chainline is made to work with both 130mm spacing and 12*142.
Rotor Aldhu is an example. They implemented an interchangeable axle.
Either you go for 43.5mm chainline or 46mm.
Personally i feel for that THM is not optimal. Even previous version of Etap uses 45mm chainline.
Ok. Noted. Thank you very much for the details.

If worst come to worst.....If I not happy with the shifting quality; I just have to sell off the THM and get a proper H11 crank.

takashi24
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

by takashi24

morrisond wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:01 pm


Sounds good - it should be fine.

Be careful with 405mm CS and 28mm tires - depending on the tire and your Seat Angle you might run into clearance issues. I've been there and done that with a Gp4 28mm that measures more like 31-32mm won't fit.

If you are doing custom what fork are you going to use? If it's an ENVE RD Disc that has clearance for up to 34mm in front (32mm Official) so it will be able to take the new GP5000 32mm.

It would be a shame for the back not be able to take what the front can. You don't have to run 32mm but it would be a shame not to have the option.

You really won't be able to tell the difference between 405 and 410-415mm Chainstays assuming the same front end. However you will really appreciate the ability to take bigger tires. Especially if you are touring and doing a lot longer rides. For me they are much more mentally relaxing as your bike doesn't get thrown off line by crappy pavement/cracks/grates and you can handle mild gravel as well.

According to Bicycletirerollingresistance they aren't any slower either....https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... comparison
True. Currently my F8 (size 44) looks tight on GP4k2 25mm on Ultra Bora rim. That's why I taking a custom geo frame option. At this moment, I havent really submit anything to my LBS about my next bike build. Surely, I will seek for the frame builder opinion about the geo for the 28mm tire clearance. Thanks for the highlights.

Myself consider more in climbing discipline hence my bike build refer more on climbing bike category. Therefore the CS dimension, I always read the review short CS is better respond for climb. The problem is; What is the limit length value consider short? I did a bit comparison....mostly "racing geo" climbing bike CS float between 400mm~405mm.

Never ridden any bike like BMC Roadmachine or other big brand "touring" bikes or Paris-Roubix cobbler ready bikes. Hence I dont want gamble adopting those geo which I might regret it. Worst is not easy to sell it off the frame with custom geo tailor + paint on my likes. Since you saying the 5~10mm addition doesnt make much different; I could give it a try with advice of the frame builder. Like you said; is better to have more configuration option for my touring setup rather limited to just 28mm below. Especially I always use Conti GP series tire which is more bigger.

morrisond
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

What material are you going to make the frame out of? Who is the builder?

At size 44 on an F8 can I assume that your weight is rather low?

I'm quite a big guy at 100KG plus and have had many custom frames built in Carbon, Steel and Ti.

That little difference in chainstay length (5-10mm) really doesn't make a difference as it's not a big enough difference in leverage - however you can get a different feel from different shaped or thicker chainstays. BTW - the largest F8 sizes have 411 Chainstays - I would guess it's the same carbon part as the small frames they just cut it smaller for the smaller ones.

If you want a more snappy rear just spec a different tube(s) - however - assuming you are on the lighter side of weenies you may not need too.

takashi24
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:21 am

by takashi24

morrisond wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:03 pm
What material are you going to make the frame out of? Who is the builder?

At size 44 on an F8 can I assume that your weight is rather low?

I'm quite a big guy at 100KG plus and have had many custom frames built in Carbon, Steel and Ti.

That little difference in chainstay length (5-10mm) really doesn't make a difference as it's not a big enough difference in leverage - however you can get a different feel from different shaped or thicker chainstays. BTW - the largest F8 sizes have 411 Chainstays - I would guess it's the same carbon part as the small frames they just cut it smaller for the smaller ones.

If you want a more snappy rear just spec a different tube(s) - however - assuming you are on the lighter side of weenies you may not need too.
I going for either Sarto Asola Disc or Festka One Disc (both carbon). Still cant really make up my mind which to go for as both different bike at the end result.

Ya. Jz a short guy with 55kg only. I guess it wont really go wrong having a 410mm chainstay with 75.5degree seat tube (took from SL6 disc geo; I assume most modern disc road bike with racing geo can min fit a 32mm; correct me if I wrong.) enable to fit 32mm tire base on your explanation.

morrisond
Posts: 946
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:34 pm

by morrisond

Both are great builders - I've had a Sarto (Road-Rim) and almost bought a Festka a few times.

If it's carbon at your weight - don't worry about stiffness at all.

I would have to guess Sarto builds there own forks - Festka will use what you want.

You should be able to get a 32mm in a 410 chainstay with a nice steep seat tube like that. Your builder would know - just make sure the fork matches.

by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post