Orbea Orca 2020

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
bilwit
Posts: 1221
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

wheelsONfire wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:56 pm
Why does all these "new bikes" look so similar... It's boring!
To their credit it looks like there's enough there to set it apart from just another dropped stay semi aero bike, at least moreso than Scott, Cannondale, etc. I love the bowed out fork and the paint customization is a huge plus. Same classy appeal of the old OMR but with sone modern touches

by Weenie


g32ecs
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

Hexsense wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:49 pm
Found the rake on Orbea's website
Fork rake=48mm for size 47-51 and 43mm for size 53-60.

Now we can calculate tail.
size 47 trail=66
size 49 trail=63
Size 51 trail=59
size 53 trail=60
size 55 trail=59
size 57 and 60 trail=58 , Only size 57 and 60 handle as fast as Supersix Evo which has trail=58mm on all sizes..

Overall, except size 47 and 49, they seems to do okay. Almost monotonically faster handling as you go up the size. But certainly not as consistence as the new Supersix Evo or new Cervelo S3, S5.
I dont have the same understanding with geometry as you, but can you explain in more simple terms what you just said about 47 and 49?

Only asking because this tends to be my size with manufacturers. Currently using a Felt AR size 48 and I think it suits me well

https://feltbicycles.com/collections/ar ... 1180517494

I'm in search for an all rounder this time with emphasis on lesser weight, not much so on a more relaxed position

Hexsense
Posts: 964
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

g32ecs wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:59 pm
I dont have the same understanding with geometry as you, but can you explain in more simple terms what you just said about 47 and 49?

Only asking because this tends to be my size with manufacturers. Currently using a Felt AR size 48 and I think it suits me well

https://feltbicycles.com/collections/ar ... 1180517494

I'm in search for an all rounder this time with emphasis on lesser weight, not much so on a more relaxed position
Sure,
TLDR version: the Orbea size 49 will handle similar to your FELT. But different to most bike of larger sizes.
==== below are extra info about trail ====

the most dominant factor on how fast the bike handle (how easy it is to change direction) is trail value. It is a more dominant factor than wheel base etc. So we want to make sure a bike has trail value in range that make sense. Too low value (fast) and it is twitchy, too high trail value (slow handling) and it is sluggish.

Trail value is a product of head tube angle, fork offset, and wheel height (+ tire height/width).
There are multiple combination that create the same trail value:
for example 73deg head tube angle +44mm fork offset.
or
71.2deg head tube angle + 55mm fork offset.
Both handle (nearly) equally fast because of same trail value=58mm despite the 71.2deg head tube angle +55mm fork offset put front wheel much further away from you (longer wheelbase)

Normal range of trail value for racing road bike is 56-60mm. But small bikes generally got compromised here, because manufacturers slacken head tube angle to push front wheel away but don't create a dedicated fork with more offset to compensate for it (or not enough compensation).

FELT AR3 size 48 use HTA=71deg + fork offset 52mm -> trail=62mm (for tire size 25mm)
this Orbea size 49 trail=63, larger sizes are around 59mm
Specialized Tarmac size 49 trail=63mm , larger sizes are around 58mm
new Cervelo S3 and S5, trail=57mm on all sizes
New Cannondale Supersix Evo trail=58mm on all sizes (except size 44)

In any case mentioned above, those are above standard. They use multiple fork offset to minimize or completely neutralize handling difference across sizes.
Some common notably bad example i can think off are
Giant TCR size XS HTA=71deg+ fork offset=45mm (share fork with all larger sizes) -> trail=70mm while just going up one size to size S and you'll have trail=60mm
BMC Teammachine size 47 trail=76mm
BMC Teammachine size 51 trail=66mm

g32ecs
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:50 am

by g32ecs

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:30 pm
g32ecs wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:59 pm
I dont have the same understanding with geometry as you, but can you explain in more simple terms what you just said about 47 and 49?

Only asking because this tends to be my size with manufacturers. Currently using a Felt AR size 48 and I think it suits me well

https://feltbicycles.com/collections/ar ... 1180517494

I'm in search for an all rounder this time with emphasis on lesser weight, not much so on a more relaxed position
Sure,
TLDR version: the Orbea size 49 will handle similar to your FELT. But different to most bike of larger sizes.
==== below are extra info about trail ====

the most dominant factor on how fast the bike handle (how easy it is to change direction) is trail value. It is a more dominant factor than wheel base etc. So we want to make sure a bike has trail value in range that make sense. Too low value (fast) and it is twitchy, too high trail value (slow handling) and it is sluggish.

Trail value is a product of head tube angle, fork offset, and wheel height (+ tire height/width).
There are multiple combination that create the same trail value:
for example 73deg head tube angle +44mm fork offset.
or
71.2deg head tube angle + 55mm fork offset.
Both handle (nearly) equally fast because of same trail value=58mm despite the 71.2deg head tube angle +55mm fork offset put front wheel much further away from you (longer wheelbase)

Normal range of trail value for racing road bike is 56-60mm. But small bikes generally got compromised here, because manufacturers slacken head tube angle to push front wheel away but don't create a dedicated fork with more offset to compensate for it (or not enough compensation).

FELT AR3 size 48 use HTA=71deg + fork offset 52mm -> trail=62mm (for tire size 25mm)
this Orbea size 49 trail=63, larger sizes are around 59mm
Specialized Tarmac size 49 trail=63mm , larger sizes are around 58mm
new Cervelo S3 and S5, trail=57mm on all sizes
New Cannondale Supersix Evo trail=58mm on all sizes (except size 44)

In any case mentioned above, those are above standard. They use multiple fork offset to minimize or completely neutralize handling difference across sizes.
Some common notably bad example i can think off are
Giant TCR size XS HTA=71deg+ fork offset=45mm (share fork with all larger sizes) -> trail=70mm while just going up one size to size S and you'll have trail=60mm
BMC Teammachine size 47 trail=76mm
BMC Teammachine size 51 trail=66mm
I super appreciate this

I also have a BMC and I find they're sizing a bit too big (TTs always long for all the size ranges). Giant I find the same with their gigantic HTs sometimes (and they rarely offer my size in Canada, oh well)

MMW
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:23 pm

by MMW

Judging by cycling tips first ride review, it seems that Orbea didn’t really have aero in mind.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/09/orbea-o ... n1-killer/

Wired, cause it looks pretty aero.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

andreas
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:21 pm

by andreas

I think the comment about the TA skewers say it all, changing them from the version with handles to one with plain bolts nets you the same aero benefit as all the aero tubing profiles of the frame itself; (27s per 3600 sec at 50 kph).
It's pretty obvious that other ride qualities matter a lot more.

JayDee81
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 pm

by JayDee81

What do you think about the base model (M20LTD-D) with the mechanical Ultegra? Will it shift good even with the hidden cables?

xylar
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:36 pm

by xylar

The Orca OMX is available in five different builds:

• Orca M20Ltd-D Shimano Ultegra (mechanical) groupset, £4,199
• Orca M20iLtd-D Shimano Ultegra Di2 groupset, £4,999
• Orca M21eLtd-D SRAM Force eTap groupset, £5,299
• Orca M10iLtd-D Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 groupset, £7,899 - 7.5kg
• Orca M11eLtd-D SRAM Red eTap AXS groupset, £8,299
Anyone know if all models use the same frameset? if not how do the frameset weights stack up?

FactoryMatt
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:35 am

by FactoryMatt

saw one in person. looks great.

in between this, parlee rz7, and scott addict RC.

this is the best combo of price and support/part availability (parlees small, uses proprietary bar and stem and doesn't have an aero bar option).

wondering how the ride would be compared to what's likely the more 'exotic' other two options.

any actual weights or ride reports for the medium-to-large sizes?

tarkus
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:17 pm

by tarkus

just ordered my omx frameset...now it's time for waiting and refreshing the delivery status every day! :roll:

teebs
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:04 pm

by teebs

tarkus wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:58 pm
just ordered my omx frameset...now it's time for waiting and refreshing the delivery status every day! :roll:
I have a OMX Di2 hopefully arriving within the next 3 weeks - how do you track the delivery status? Thanks

tarkus
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:17 pm

by tarkus

teebs wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:20 pm


I have a OMX Di2 hopefully arriving within the next 3 weeks - how do you track the delivery status? Thanks
haha good one...just with my account on the webpage. When did you order? Mine is "due" in March :(
But I've heard that Orbea takes its time with frameset-only AND MyO.

teebs
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:04 pm

by teebs

tarkus wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:59 pm
teebs wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:20 pm


I have a OMX Di2 hopefully arriving within the next 3 weeks - how do you track the delivery status? Thanks
haha good one...just with my account on the webpage. When did you order? Mine is "due" in March :(
But I've heard that Orbea takes its time with frameset-only AND MyO.

Ordered at the start of September so it should be 3 months.

Still can't find where to check the order..

tarkus
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:17 pm

by tarkus

did you order at your LBS or just online (like I did)?

teebs
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:04 pm

by teebs

I think that's the issue, I ordered through my LBS..

by Weenie


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