Orbea Orca 2020

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Unniti
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:35 pm

by Unniti

wheelbuilder wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:29 am
boots2000 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 5:44 pm
Be careful- In my experience, Orbea paint looks great but scratches and chips quite easily. It is very thin.

wheelbuilder wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 3:09 am
g32ecs wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 4:57 pm
And hows the finish on the paint job?
Unless something has drastically changed, there is nothing to worry about when it comes to Orbea Paint Shop. They do really, really, good work.
Not my experience at all. At least with gloss finish. This frame is four years old, and short of a couple of downtube/bb shell rock chips, remains brand new looking. The paintwork on the gloss frames is the opposite of thin.
Image
I get massive Cannondale vibes from the top half paint of that bike. Not in a bad way though and the paint looks great.

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Stendhal
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:43 am
Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

I don't usually write things like this, but I just read a bizarre review of the Ultegra version of the bike. It's on Velo News, which is not a bad site.

https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-gear ... -d-review/

The bizarre point is that the reviewers' con points are "Paint is blah; wheel and tire combo feels a bit too narrow." This is what the great Bill James called MPE (Maximum Possible Error). Of course, in reality, you can choose a custom paint colorway at no extra charge, thus avoiding any "blah"; and the bike (easily) fits 32mm tires, where to my research (see earlier in this thread) the only other stock road bike that officially claims it will fit that wide a tire is the new Giant TCR. The "con" points actually refer to unique anti-con features of the bike. Every other reviewer has noted them, and they are accurate and IMO real benefits. I guess sometimes it does pay to pay attention to marketing talk!

Oh, and for that matter, my experience on handling has been the opposite of the reviewer's: the back end (with its massive chain stay) is stiffer than the front. (Admittedly my experience may be colored by using 156g weightweenie bars rather than the stock 220g bars.)
Cervelo Aspero (7.75); Orbea Orca OMX (7.30)
Retired: S-Works Tarmac SL6, LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10\F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2\R3\R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

by Weenie


Etienne
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

Stendhal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:51 am
The bizarre point is that the reviewers' con points are "... wheel and tire combo feels a bit too narrow." ... and the bike (easily) fits 32mm tires, where to my research (see earlier in this thread) the only other stock road bike that officially claims it will fit that wide a tire is the new Giant TCR.
Well, I think the reviewer never wrote that there's not enough clearance for bigger tires ... on the contrary, he seems to regret the choice of a narrow rims/tires combo, when the frame and fork are able to offer clearance for 32+ tires, isn't he ?

woodyvalentine
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:40 pm

by woodyvalentine

Was really interested in this. Just seems kind of hard to find in Canada. Seems underrated. The internal stem/routing on this is pretty good too. Better than the system/supersix. Looks like it'd work with Deda DCR or FSA ACR as well. (Could be wrong).

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Stendhal
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:43 am
Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

Etienne wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:19 am
Stendhal wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:51 am
The bizarre point is that the reviewers' con points are "... wheel and tire combo feels a bit too narrow." ... and the bike (easily) fits 32mm tires, where to my research (see earlier in this thread) the only other stock road bike that officially claims it will fit that wide a tire is the new Giant TCR.
Well, I think the reviewer never wrote that there's not enough clearance for bigger tires ... on the contrary, he seems to regret the choice of a narrow rims/tires combo, when the frame and fork are able to offer clearance for 32+ tires, isn't he ?
To be fair perhaps the editor wrote the bullets for the pros and cons and hence chose to highlight the tire size, but the reviewer did not mention that the bike fits up to 32, when that would have ameliorated his criticism. It was strange
Cervelo Aspero (7.75); Orbea Orca OMX (7.30)
Retired: S-Works Tarmac SL6, LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10\F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2\R3\R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

teebs
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:04 pm

by teebs

I've got over 1,300km on my OMX now and it's simply superb. Running the stock 25mm Mavic tyres Tubeless.
Would highly recommend one..

bosco2814
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:21 am

by bosco2814

woodyvalentine wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:26 am
Was really interested in this. Just seems kind of hard to find in Canada. Seems underrated. The internal stem/routing on this is pretty good too. Better than the system/supersix. Looks like it'd work with Deda DCR or FSA ACR as well. (Could be wrong).
deleted

Peabody
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:55 am

by Peabody

Looks like there is going to be an update for 2021?

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source ... f041a35_42

Koev
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 1:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands

by Koev

Peabody wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:06 pm
Looks like there is going to be an update for 2021?

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source ... f041a35_42
Tried to customize an OMX in the myo program but its removed.. maybe this has something to do with it?
Could also be that it just takes too much time in their production proces. just speculating.


other question, anyone tried to put some 30+mm tyres on it? clearance is max 32mm, but would like to know if bigger than 28mm is recommended.
Dutch

Orbea Orca OMX 2020
Startersbike: Cube Attain 2017 (mounted@ Tacx Neo2)

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JayDee81
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:45 pm
Location: Europe

by JayDee81

Koev wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:29 pm
other question, anyone tried to put some 30+mm tyres on it? clearance is max 32mm, but would like to know if bigger than 28mm is recommended.
At the press release event they did a light gravel ride with 32 mm tires on it, so shouldn't be a problem.

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Stendhal
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:43 am
Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

Koev wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:29 pm
Peabody wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:06 pm
Looks like there is going to be an update for 2021?

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source ... f041a35_42
Tried to customize an OMX in the myo program but its removed.. maybe this has something to do with it?
Could also be that it just takes too much time in their production proces. just speculating.


other question, anyone tried to put some 30+mm tyres on it? clearance is max 32mm, but would like to know if bigger than 28mm is recommended.
I'm riding Goodyear size 32s with plenty of clearance.

Checking...you're partially correct about myO, it is gone for the OMX full builds, but still available for the frame set (and some OMR builds). Very odd.

The OMX was released in late-ish 2019, so it's strange to think it would be replaced. Perhaps a rim brake version? Or the base model Orca is being updated?
Cervelo Aspero (7.75); Orbea Orca OMX (7.30)
Retired: S-Works Tarmac SL6, LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10\F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2\R3\R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

robeambro
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

By the way, have there been any real world weights available for this? I'm puzzled as I've not seen any builds popping up here; is nobody buying it?

I see Stendhal has bought a very nice one, and I'm trying to track down the info. But ideally would be nice to have more sample data!

Koev
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 1:26 pm
Location: The Netherlands

by Koev

robeambro wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:37 am
By the way, have there been any real world weights available for this? I'm puzzled as I've not seen any builds popping up here; is nobody buying it?

I see Stendhal has bought a very nice one, and I'm trying to track down the info. But ideally would be nice to have more sample data!
I think its too recent to have a lot of builds/modificiations. Ill weight my complete bike when it comes in.


I ordered an size 60, mechanical ultegra, Alloy FSA powerbox (@925grams oops, happy my country is flat), 1590g for Vision SC40 wheelset, and expect this to be around 8.2kg with pedals, Cages, garmin mount...(again, riding windy, flat roads in Holland).

I do have a WW-todolist, put the bike on a diet:
- switch bars, standard is approx 230g, so around 50 grams potential save? Stem is mandatory, but a lil heavy at 190g.
- Go tubeless (200 grams save?)
- mech dura ace RD (easy, good price/gram ratio)
- save money for FSA carbon powerbox (1200eu) or a good alternative crankset with powermeter (4iii shimano set) and save approx. 220g
- dura ace disc and casette after they are worn out.
- GP5000 tyres, hutchinsons are heavy (https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/)
hopefully ill be around 7,6 by then. and spend another 2k euro.
Di2 is on the list aswell, but think it is pretty expensive, especcially for durace components, might not swap out the the durarace RD if ill go that way.


Question:
Anyone have an idea for thru axles? dont like the mavic's, since they are attached to the wheel. DT Swiss has a set (RWS TA), is that usable?
Also, Orbea claims you need a special thru axle to put the bike on a trainer. I dont like that.

EDIT: Question 2, is it possible to fit the powerbox (basicly an P2M NGeco) on carbon cranks? if i check FSA website, it looks like its not changible?


If you guys have any other recommendations for upgrades (direct mount for RD?), please share.


Regards,
Dutch

Orbea Orca OMX 2020
Startersbike: Cube Attain 2017 (mounted@ Tacx Neo2)

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Stendhal
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:43 am
Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

robeambro wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:37 am
By the way, have there been any real world weights available for this? I'm puzzled as I've not seen any builds popping up here; is nobody buying it?

I see Stendhal has bought a very nice one, and I'm trying to track down the info. But ideally would be nice to have more sample data!
I live for this kind of inquiry, it's almost as fun as riding. Seriously, I want to know (really estimate) the weight before I buy if I can't weigh an actual model, and even then actual stock models are just a starting point because you have to see what you can do with a weight diet. If the weight for a road bike is too heavy (my tipping point is 7.6 kg depending on stiffness, heavier than that gets sluggish for me esp. on climbs), why bother unless you live in flatland and aero truly is everything?

To reiterate my Orca OMX is 7.3 kg with pedals but sans cage and mount, size 55.

The stock models have heavier wheels than mine (1460 g). I have the exact data on a spreadsheet on my desktop computer, but working from memory (just checked to the sites), there were 3 bike site reviews with reported actual weights without pedals when I was shopping. All were the eTap AXS variant (sadly this eTap is heavier than di2). One site had weight 7.35 kg for size 55, my size. This may have been the road.cc video review; the rider weighed the bike on camera. Bike Radar (Warren Rossiter) had 7.5 kg for size 57. The other site, Gran Fondo, had 7.43 kg for size 57. The closeness of these numbers suggests they are pretty accurate as to what to expect. There may be newer reviews out now, these were in place when I was planning the componentry for my frame on order.

I undercut these weights (remember mine includes pedals, the relatively mid weight Assioma single) by the wheels; by a lighter drive train, SRAM mechanical hydraulic disc with Easton EC90 47 \ 32 cranks; and by a haero 156g featherlight but stiff bar. On the negative side weight wise I am still using tubes, that plus size 32 tires (even though mine are shockingly light) probably add grams to the stock size 25 tubeless builds.

The stem and seat post are heavy (the stem is a 220 g anvil at size 110mm with the cable cover) but proprietary, so these otherwise excellent opportunities to cut weight can't be used. I suppose you could ditch the stem, but the stock stem is integral to the hidden cable routing. You could also try a radically light saddle such as a Berk; the stock is specced at 139g, my SWorks Power Arc is 143g. I would have saved 51 g by sticking with the Look Keo carbon blade pedals from my prior bike. And of course there are lighter disc wheels than my November RCG 36es.

If I were doing a re-do I may use lighter wheels (I actually bought lighter used wheels but they were defective) and a 50g heavier Pro Vibe Carbon aero bars.
Cervelo Aspero (7.75); Orbea Orca OMX (7.30)
Retired: S-Works Tarmac SL6, LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10\F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2\R3\R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

by Weenie


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Stendhal
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:43 am
Location: Silicon Valley

by Stendhal

Koev wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:25 pm
robeambro wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:37 am
By the way, have there been any real world weights available for this? I'm puzzled as I've not seen any builds popping up here; is nobody buying it?

I see Stendhal has bought a very nice one, and I'm trying to track down the info. But ideally would be nice to have more sample data!
I think its too recent to have a lot of builds/modificiations. Ill weight my complete bike when it comes in.

Stem is mandatory, but a lil heavy at 190g.
- Go tubeless (200 grams save?)
- dura ace disc and casette after they are worn out

Question:
Anyone have an idea for thru axles? dont like the mavic's, since they are attached to the wheel. DT Swiss has a set (RWS TA), is that usable?
Also, Orbea claims you need a special thru axle to put the bike on a trainer. I dont like that


If you guys have any other recommendations for upgrades (direct mount for RD?), please share.

Regards,
You are going to be very happy I predict! :D I may try to spec your model on my spreadsheet for a prediction for you. I was very close on my prediction on my build last time.

See my previous post with some weight ideas. The haero bars were about $350 on starbike :thumbup: and unlike other superlight bars have a relatively high rider weight limit, 115g. If you are going to spend money on non stock cranks, the Easton combination saves weight, esp if you cheat on the chain rings as I did with a pretty radical 47 \ 32. A problem here is that the crank arms can be hard to find and aren't sold at much of a discount to list. It's a budget weight weenie play as compared to say the Clavicula.

On the negative side, the stem is going to be materially heavier than your estimate. Your estimate makes sense because the reviews I had seen reported 160g for size 100mm. In reality, my size 110mm weighed 216g, with the underside cable cover at 4g more. I weighed it multiple times to be sure. Alas, without the proprietary stem, the cables coming up from the head tube will kind of flop below the stem. Orbea should address the weight, there's no need to pay 216g for stiffness (esp as the company's designers pitched the bike as not an all out race machine). Even Peter Sagan did not need that heavy a stem when he used to resort to a non sponsor Zipp stem before Specialized developed a Venge stem up to his needs.

The stock models weighed on review sites are already tubeless so I don't know if there are savings opportunities there, which in any event aren't that large once you also consider sealant and valves. If you stick with tubes, the BikeTube butane performance tube is a weight bargain without having to go latex at 85g actual weight for the larger 25-32 size I use.

As to thru axles, my frame-only order came with Orbea axles and not the Mavics. The Orbeas do not have a lever and thus save if I recall correctly 13g. They are excellent. The Mavic threading is unique and the only substitute I had found was from the Robert Axle Project.

My go-to weight weenie part on every bike is the SRAM Red cassette, 168g or so for 11-28, $269 or so discounted on eBay. The comparable Dura Ace is specced at 193g.
Cervelo Aspero (7.75); Orbea Orca OMX (7.30)
Retired: S-Works Tarmac SL6, LOW// mki, Pinarello Dogma F10\F8, Lapierre Pulsium, TIME Fluidity, Wilier Cento1 SR, Ridley Noah, Cyfac Cadence, Cervelo S2\R3\R5, Felt Z25, Klein Quantum, Cannondale 2.0

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