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Re: N0.22 Titanium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:11 am
by Wookski
rollinslow wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:31 pm
Imaking20 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:02 am
Extra $2k is not a small sum of money - and who says it's the best? NAHBS certainly doesn't. $4k for a frame is already a silly amount.

lol you have to be joking right? Moots wasn't even at the NAHBS this year. That's like saying Baum is no good because they didn't go to NAHBS this year. They had a bike displayed for painters Black Magic. Btw, most Moots frames are more than 4k anyway.
Agree, plenty of abominations win awards @ NAHBS.

Re: N0.22 Titanium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:11 am
by Weenie

Re: N0.22 Titanium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:13 am
by ChiZ01
where are No.22 frames made?

Re: N0.22 Titanium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:38 am
by Stendhal
ChiZ01 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:13 am
where are No.22 frames made?
They are made in Serotta's old factory in upstate New York (Saratoga Springs if I recall correctly?)

Re: N0.22 Titanium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:54 pm
by petert123
No22 - I really like they do offer full internal routing, and show proper pictures, unlike most other makes that always seems to have shots of the bikes hidding the hoses from view.

Very helpful and friendly when I contacted them. I'm in the market to build-up a nice 4-season bike, biggest hurdle for me is the extra cost to get the frame to the UK.

Re: N0.22 Titanium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:12 pm
by morrisond
Imaking20 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:54 am
morrisond wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:43 pm
romanmoser wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:41 pm
morrisond wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:15 pm
I have had a few Ti bikes (Mosaic's) - while beautiful I never got that snappy feeling either.

I'm currently riding a custom Steel Bike built by Saltair using Columbus HSS tubing with an ENVE Road Disc Fork and clearance for 34 tires.

It goes when you stomp on it and feels like a nice stiff Carbon Race Bike. The weight bare was within 50 grams of the Mosaic's (Ti gets pretty Heavy in bigger 58/60 sizes when you are trying to make them stiff).

I think Ti is a great material for an Gravel/Adventure bike - not so much for race bikes when you want them to be really responsive.

I doubt the Moots RSL would be any different. It looks like it uses 22 Chainstays which I don't think are stiff enough. All that butting and relieveing aren't going to help either. If I did a Ti Road bike again it would have to have 25mm Chainstays which are somewhat rare. I know Baum uses them on bigger Caliper bikes (not sure about Disc) and a company like Wittson will do it.

Well Litespeed can ... :mrgreen:
Firefly too with the #419 they produce a L frame with not much slooping PF30 , 44mm headtube , fat chainstays for what 1200 1300 gr ...
Agree about larger chainstays , dt , seat tube also to have good power transmission ( albeit I love 27,2mm for flex confort )

Not interested in steel personnaly even if some are nice
Stainless steel ( Reynolds and Columbus ) interest me tough
But it's so thin , I would have to see one that has been ridden on gravel cx or less than ideal roads before I commit ...
Not love for dings dents that sort of things
There is no way a Firefly is 1200-1300 grams with PF30 BB, 44mm Headtube, big chainstays and there dropouts (albeit they are beautiful) in anything smaller than a 50.

Think more like 1600-1700 grams at least with no paint for a size Large.

My 58cm Mosaic R1 with 44mm HT, PF30 BB(they use the same Paragon parts as Firefly for both), lighter dropouts than Firefly and all tubes butted was close to 1900 grams with 3/4 paint, similar unpainted RT-1's at Blacksmith were 1600-1700 grams. ... 1158071946
Must have been some very heavy paint! No. 22 quoted me 1450g for a Great Divide. I've seen a few RT1s on here under 1400g (granted, some of them baby sized). My 54cm T2 was 1238g.

In response to the comment above about military and aerospace having priority for titanium supply - and limited availability coming back to bike suppliers - could just as well be a marketing line for Litespeed! They developed titanium parts for a Mars "Curiosity" rover - which required they have complete control over their entire supply chain. I suspect it's very unlikely that any bicycle manufacturer honestly has a higher quality titanium than what Litespeed offers (nor do I actually believe it matters). This is a big reason why I can't understand spending thousands more on ANY titanium frame (that absolutely includes Mosaic, for the record). And when's the last time Moots offered brand new frames for $1650?
PF30/T47/BB30 BB's add a bunch of weight and the 44mm head tubes are not light either (plus the 44mm headsets weight a lot). You can build one lighter - but if you want it in size large and stiff they are going to be really close to the weight of steel.

Re: N0.22 Titanium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:49 pm
by romanmoser
not for litespeed
and to have a good steel frame as light as a good custom titanium frame you have to use carbon seattube with isp like prova and his speciale

Re: N0.22 Titanium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:40 pm
by wfcarrot
+1 Moots, or go Eriksen