Which Groupset to choose in today's madness

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
MyM3Coupe
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:32 pm

by MyM3Coupe

robeambro wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:32 pm
However, One of the reasons why I’m hesitant to go for mechanical, is that more and more high-end framesets are becoming electronic-only.
Wrong. Some manufacturers used to build electric/mechanical dedicated frames only (Time did for sure) but now most all frames are dual use. Mechanical isn't going away. i preferred the dedicated frames, specifically external routing for mechanical as there is much less drag caused from internal routing.

by Weenie


TiCass
Posts: 227
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:13 pm

by TiCass

MyM3Coupe wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:10 pm
FIJIGabe wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:05 pm
As an alternative, you can get DA9100 for about the same price as Ultegra 8070. Yeah, it's still mechanical vs. electronic, but the shifting on 9100 is good, and it will result in a lighter bike.
I'm building up another bike now. Been on Campy for like 25 years, but I'm going 9100. Rode a friends bike with it; the shifting is crazy light, and the front shifting is sublime. Makes me wonder why once would need/want electronic shifting.
Totally agree. Also, the new rear mech has a much shorter cable and the front mech completely hide the cable. It's a very nice groupset. The shifting performance gap with electronic has been reduce with the 9100.

robeambro
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Thanks to all who replied, plenty of interesting points again. I hope this will help others as well. :mrgreen:

To those who asked, the frame will probably be an SL6 Disc, although I am still toying with the idea of a Venge (which will make choices easier being electronic only). Not that it matters necessarily.

What I'm seeing is that SRAM and Campagnolo may have some advantages, but overall Shimano may represent the wisest option (unless one wants to build a Colnago or similar Italian/custom steed).

I'm getting the idea that a "best" course for somebody like me with a non-infinite budget would be to:
- if electronic, go for Ultegra Di2 and potentially swap cranks/cassette over time if one really wants to shed some weight.
- if mechanical, go for DA (or Record 11sp if going with Campy).

To be honest I kinda like the looks of Campagnolo (I'm a sucker for carbon looks). But I've never tried it and it seems like it would be a love-it-or-hate-it situation. Aaand looks, at least for groupset choice, should not matter that much. I think.

dcorn
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:21 pm
Location: NoVA

by dcorn

I've always loved the simplicity of my original Sram Red groupset, but the Ultegra Di2 disc on my new bike is so simple and works so well. The cables are so easily hidden, I almost don't see a reason to move to wireless.

L3X
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:39 pm

by L3X

I think you listed all the reasonable contenders correctly. I would not recommend putting something on with the thought of upgrading it later (apart from parts that wear out) - bottom line it will be more expensive, plus its pretty likely you will always have this in mind and never be really really happy with your bike. From my experience Ultegra DI2 is just great, given that's at a good pricepoint for you that would be my pick. Moneywise the jump from Ultegra DI2 to DA DI2 doesn't really make sense, so wouldn't be too worried about that. eTap disc is a really good groupset as well, though personally I don't think it's worth the additional money over Ultegra DI2 - also I think the lever hoods on eTap disc are a bit too bulky, but that's just personal preference I guess. If you go the mechanical route, just make sure you invest in a good set of cables, that really makes a huge difference.

The bad news is that there's a lot to pick from, and a lot to consider. The good news on the other hand is that given you're options there's really no bad groupset in your list - they're all pretty great!

rides4beer
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 am
Location: SC

by rides4beer

TiCass wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:22 pm
Totally agree. Also, the new rear mech has a much shorter cable and the front mech completely hide the cable. It's a very nice groupset. The shifting performance gap with electronic has been reduce with the 9100.
I had someone mistake my r8000 front for a Di2 setup, because it's so clean looking. I've never used electronic, but shifting is perfect on mine, and the direct mount brakes are fantastic.

bm0p700f
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

Rotor already have come out with 13 speed.

robertbb
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Pick the one with the hood shape that feel best in your hands. Like a saddle, you'll be in contact with it for pretty much the entirity of your ride. You can get used to Ultrashift, Double Tap and Shimano style very easily - each has advantages and disadvantages and that in itself is not a showstopper.

There's no reason to avoid 11 speed just because 12 speed is out. A bonus of 11 speed (other than reduced price, now) is that cranks, cassettes and chains are all interchangeable. No idea what Shimano will do, but already between Campagnolo and SRAM, 12 speed looks like it's going to pin you down into a particular standard.

There's also no need to go electronic - good mechanical groups (Campy C/R/SR and Shimano DA/Ultegra) are very, very good. They're lighter, cheaper and it cost less to replace parts as necessary.

As has been said, lots is changing right now... I'd get something 11 speed and enjoy it while things play out.

Discodan
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:55 am

by Discodan

MyM3Coupe wrote:
robeambro wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:32 pm
However, One of the reasons why I’m hesitant to go for mechanical, is that more and more high-end framesets are becoming electronic-only.
Wrong. Some manufacturers used to build electric/mechanical dedicated frames only (Time did for sure) but now most all frames are dual use. Mechanical isn't going away. i preferred the dedicated frames, specifically external routing for mechanical as there is much less drag caused from internal routing.
Actually he’s right. You rarely used to see a frame set that wasn’t available in a mechanical variant but now they are arriving that will never support a mechanical variant (i.e. Venge). Given it’s driven by cable bends required for full cable integration, which is only become more common, it’s safe to assume we’ll see a lot more electronic only frames


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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Best bang for buck is Shimano Ultegra Di2 or (1 gen) Sram Etap.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Discodan wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:15 am
MyM3Coupe wrote:
robeambro wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:32 pm
However, One of the reasons why I’m hesitant to go for mechanical, is that more and more high-end framesets are becoming electronic-only.
Wrong. Some manufacturers used to build electric/mechanical dedicated frames only (Time did for sure) but now most all frames are dual use. Mechanical isn't going away. i preferred the dedicated frames, specifically external routing for mechanical as there is much less drag caused from internal routing.
Actually he’s right. You rarely used to see a frame set that wasn’t available in a mechanical variant but now they are arriving that will never support a mechanical variant (i.e. Venge). Given it’s driven by cable bends required for full cable integration, which is only become more common, it’s safe to assume we’ll see a lot more electronic only frames


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My Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race, is Etap version. No holes except for rear brake.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

RTW
in the industry
Posts: 3527
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:32 pm

by RTW

Yes, but it isn’t a common frame. In fact I only know 5 people locally who have one.
Your cycling kit is one size too big!

robeambro
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

robertbb wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:29 am
Pick the one with the hood shape that feel best in your hands. Like a saddle, you'll be in contact with it for pretty much the entirity of your ride. You can get used to Ultrashift, Double Tap and Shimano style very easily - each has advantages and disadvantages and that in itself is not a showstopper.

There's no reason to avoid 11 speed just because 12 speed is out. A bonus of 11 speed (other than reduced price, now) is that cranks, cassettes and chains are all interchangeable. No idea what Shimano will do, but already between Campagnolo and SRAM, 12 speed looks like it's going to pin you down into a particular standard.

There's also no need to go electronic - good mechanical groups (Campy C/R/SR and Shimano DA/Ultegra) are very, very good. They're lighter, cheaper and it cost less to replace parts as necessary.

As has been said, lots is changing right now... I'd get something 11 speed and enjoy it while things play out.
That's also a fair point. I didn't expect hood shape to be that big a factor, but I guess I would have to touch some hoods :mrgreen:

robertbb
Posts: 1051
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Remember also that the hoods will impact the reach. I'd say there's a 1.5 to 2cm reach difference between Campy 11 (shorter) and Shimano/SRAM (longer). With the Campy hoods you also get a little more height available optionally with the pistol grip available up top.

People go nuts about stem length and bar reach and then slap on their existing/chosen shifters without even giving this any thought which I always find strange.

by Weenie


RocketRacing
Posts: 883
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

Get the best bike you can afford and still not be divorced. Groupsets (high end) are almost always cheaper on a new bike because manufacturers get bulk discounts. Only in the very high end does it pay to build your own bike with sourced components.

Also, you are on the ww forum for a reason. Don’t buy that heavy groupset because it was sensible. It will eat away at you. Get etap at clearance prices. I think it will be the best fit of price/weight/on trend.

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