Which Groupset to choose in today's madness

[robeambro]

With Synchroshit and Semisynchroshit of Di2, you can automate some shifting situatioins for you, none of which I want "automated" as I like complete control all the time in any situation.

Campy levers on classic bars... the way I like 'em...

This is exactly what I was thinking - sure it is a "cool thing", but with Di2, activating their Syncrostuff means you're giving up some control. With Campy you may not have fancy automation, but at least you choose to actively use a feature (Multi Shifting) if and when you need.

Those hoods, those levers..

I agree that it looks great there, but I think it'd look great even on aerobars on say, a Tarmac or Venge (or at least I hope). I mean, depending on the context given by the frameset of choice, Campy groups can look classy (say, on a Colnago) or racey (say on a full-on aero steed with deep wheels and aero handlebars).

[Calnago]

Sure, they can look great on an aero bar as well. They’re not limited to a classic bar scenario. It depends on how the bars/levers interface with each other. It would seem that some folks just buy a bar without any consideration as to how they mesh with the levers they want to use. It all works together. I’ve done aero, it’s not my thing, but I’ve certainly done it for others. Di2 probably works best where the clamp area also has quite a tight radius. And then it depends on the bends and the resulting reach to the levers from the drops. It’s all gotta work together.

[AnkitS]

Read someone say something on here that I really liked. "If you need ultegra, you are getting it for free. If you need dura-ace, you are getting paid to ride it." For that reason, I went with r7020. Looks better than hydro 5800 and shifts amazing. It is heavy but honestly, I do not care. (Not very weight weenie I know.) I am a high schooler racing crits, not Chris Froome winning the tour. I have ridden SRAM mechanical, don't like it as much as Shimano. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the 11/12 speed group sets from any of the three manufacturers.

[Seedster]

My experience with Campagnolo - both mechanical and electronic - has been pain free. Mechanical was a tactile treat and EPS has been problem free; not a single issue. The first iteration of the MyCampy App was shit, but the latest is great.

I also prefer Campy's upshift/downshift having distinct thumb and index finger triggers. First time I rode Di2, I was surprised that the up/down shifters were so close to one another. Recognizing how mentally distracted I get after a rough ride, I knew the Di2 setup was not for me.

That said, I dont think you can go wrong with any of them at this point (SRAM's poor FD shifting, aside). Campy costs a lot but they all appear to be climbing into the same price range now. Just ride what you like.

[Mr.Gib]

I don't need to let go of my bars to shift... in fact, my thumb always seems to be in the exact place ready to shift whenever my mind wishes.

So the tip of your thumb is above the thumb button when your fingers are wrapped around the brake lever? Those must be some short thumbs. A photo to demonstrate my point:

In order to get the tip of my thumb on the button I need to supinate my forearm, roll my hand out a bit, and partially hover my palm above the hood. Do you have a different technique?

[Alexandrumarian]

Seein this last night i actually wondered how we are living with this Just got back from a ride and noticed that while there is a certain gymnastic required to move the thumb back, it is not a big deal. I never thought about it before. I also sometimes push it with the lower falange. But in most cases my grip is slightly back. This way I avoid pressure in between the thumb and index and the thumb tip is very close to the button, whiule still having access to the brakes. Fwiw I have large hands. With all the shortcoming of the thumb button I still prefer it to the Shimano system, where I can't get in love with the shaky brake lever.

[kgt]

... while there is a certain gymnastic required to move the thumb back, it is not a big deal.

+1

[Mr.Gib]

Just got back from a ride and noticed that while there is a certain gymnastic required to move the thumb back, it is not a big deal.

Like this?

I never thought about it before.

I spent years coaching a dangerous sport at a high level. I am programmed to be perspicacious and obsess about the "right way" in every detail - it's where athletic perfection can be found. Many are less concerned - and realistically at a recreational level details like these don't matter, unless of course it involves safety.

... in most cases my grip is slightly back. This way I avoid pressure in between the thumb and index and the thumb tip is very close to the button, whiule still having access to the brakes.

Like this? Not so sure about the brakes.

Fwiw I have large hands.

Me too - I can just palm a basketball.

[TheRich]

I also prefer Campy's upshift/downshift having distinct thumb and index finger triggers. First time I rode Di2, I was surprised that the up/down shifters were so close to one another. Recognizing how mentally distracted I get after a rough ride, I knew the Di2 setup was not for me.

It's just something you get used to, it's a big change even from Shimano mechanical, but that doesn't mean it's a difficult transition. It's not as if any shifting setup is truly intuitive, you just learn how to work it and eliminate any bad habits through the learning process.

[robertbb]

Humerous that this is being discussed to such a level of detail on a forum. I also can't help myself joining in.

When it comes to the inside button, I never use the tip of my thumb (on either hand). I use the *inside* of the joint between distal phalanx and the proximal phalanx. This way there is no backwards gymnastics required.

Same holds true from the hoods or the drops - when I reach for that lever, that's the part of my thumb that hits it.

[Mr.Gib]

delete.

[Mr.Gib]

Humerous that this is being discussed to such a level of detail on a forum. I also can't help myself joining in.

When it comes to the inside button, I never use the tip of my thumb (on either hand). I use the *inside* of the joint between distal phalanx and the proximal phalanx. This way there is no backwards gymnastics required.

Same holds true from the hoods or the drops - when I reach for that lever, that's the part of my thumb that hits it.

I do this also but it doesn't feel as comfortable as using the pad on the last joint of the thumb. Also less control. Perhaps none of this would have occured to me but for the fact that I ride in terrain that requires constant shifting. That and using mostly Sram which requires zero hand movement for shifting or braking.

Oddly, it is what is "different" about Campy that makes me enjoy it all the more. Quirks can be endearing. That and I feel special when I am one of one or two Campy users in a group of 50 all running Shimano.

...and the fine details are why we are here - nothing wrong, odd, or humorous about getting into the finest points of our gear. There is Tiagra and Sora for the folks that don't care or think it doesn't matter.

[Alexandrumarian]

Took a quick vid. Not much use for the tip indeed.

[Calnago]

I woke up this morning, feeling for movement in my wrists and fingers, wondering how on earth they could still be functioning after years of contortions trying to shift those confounded Campy levers. How could it be that I'm not riddled with arthritis. Or dementia from the madness each shift was slowly driving me closer towards with each sweep of a lever or push of that damn thumb button. I was truly perplexed. So, why not make a little video to analayze all the madness closeup and see where I'm going wrong. First of all, I wish I could show the actual chain and how it's moving between the cogs and chainrings at the same time as I'm showing the shift actions, but for now let's just concentrate on the mechanics of shifting the levers on a Campy Ultrashift Mechanical drivetrain...
Oh, as an aside I don't know how many of you had a chance to look at David Arthurs blog video of his SRAM event down in Tuscon for the AXS release, but you should check it out, especially the "interviews" with the SRAM reps, if you can watch it long enough to get there. They like to describe the shifting of the front chainrings as a "catastrophic event". I spit up my coffee when they said that.
Anyway... so couple of points of note in my video below... note how easy the "catastrophic events" are with Campy, same with Shimano... I think the catastrophic part of front shifting is pretty limited to SRAM. The other thing to note which I did in this little example, and would likely never do in real life but wanted to show it anyway was when I move up to the lowest gear (small chainring/biggest cog, where I mention I'm spinning out), then my next shift is to the big ring, so that I'm completely crossed big/big. While normally I would be going down the cassette a few cogs before hitting the big ring, I just wanted to show how easy it was to complete that particular shift (moving to the big ring while in the small/small) and ending up totally crosssed. No rubbing anwyhere of the chain on the front derailleur, and no trim necessary across the entire range of the cassette (Campy 11sp 2015+). Of course, shifting like that also requires perfect setup, but that's another topic.

[Mr.Gib]

Took a quick vid. Not much use for the tip indeed.

Good video - this is exactly what I am describing. Note the palm leaving the hood repeatedly. If you designed a shifter to be used for racing, would you design it so that the palm would at some point have to leave the hood to effect a shift? How could it be considered as good (let alone better) than a system that allows the rider to keep their palm in contact with the hood?