Vittoria Launch this month

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

This is what I meant by the marketing is the work of fools. The chart is just as likely to mean that the the new product is worse in every way then the old product. Dummies, is there a "shaking my head" emoji?
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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C36
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by C36

TobinHatesYou wrote:With no Y axis, they aren't officially claiming any percentages. The bottom of the graph could start at 100% and each line could mean 5%, 10%, 20%, whatever.
Hehe indeed! Even less meaningful :/


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aeroisnteverything
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by aeroisnteverything

Even percentages aside, an improvement in grip, durability, puncture resistance and RR all at the same time is a big deal. I guess we’ll see at least 2 of these once it’s tested.

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corky
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by corky

Thing is did anyone even notice a difference with Graphene 1.0...... I know I didn’t, just seemed like a decent tyre but not really much diffeance to any other high end road tyre.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Some pretty bold claims percentagewise.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/02/vittori ... yres-news/

zefs
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by zefs

They are heavier, so I guess there will be more puncture protection. Continental did a similar move and the tire was improved in all aspects, so waiting to see, if the margins are close I would prefer the comfort of 320tpi which is like using 10psi less.

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:26 am
Some pretty bold claims percentagewise.
https://cyclingtips.com/2019/02/vittori ... yres-news/
What an atrocious article. Are these Vitorria's claims? Doesn't say. Are they the author's findings? Doesn't say. "Data" provided without reference to the study where said data was recorded/observed? You have to wonder about the type of person that writes this and thinks its OK. You have to wonder more about he type of person who reads this and or Vittoria's marketing and accepts it.

Oh wait, they're here:
aeroisnteverything wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:37 am
Even percentages aside, an improvement in grip, durability, puncture resistance and RR all at the same time is a big deal. I guess we’ll see at least 2 of these once it’s tested.
Aeroisnteverything (and others), not withstanding your "wait and see" caveat, this type of presentation deserves no credit whatsoever. The point is the chart doesn't show anything. Consider that the chart shown is only the top 1/1000,000,000 of the whole chart. Now how big a deal are those "improvements"? That is what your fellow WW's meant by the problem with the Y axis.

The end the the article pretty much tells the story:
"Vittoria uses an enormous amount of graphene, incorporating two tonnes of the material into its products per year. Moreover, two years of research and development was devoted to understanding the capabilities of second-generation graphene. Clearly, the company has a lot faith in it....And as the newest member of the Graphene Flagship, a European association charged with promoting the commercialisation of graphene that has one billion Euro at its disposal, it appears that all sorts of prospects are about to be examined."

It is the responsibility of the the top end consumers of the bike industry like WW's to call BS on stuff like this to prevent the industry from becoming more of a joke then it already is. I don't know about you, but my BS meter is off the charts.

And lest anyone presume my harsh postion is some sort of anti-Vittoria bias, be advised I run Vittoria Corsa on 3 of my 4 main road bikes and the 4th, my winter bike, will get Vittoria's when the tubeless versions are actually available. I do have another wheelset with Compass tires that sees occasional use.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

The biggest advances in the bike industry in recent years have been in marketing techniques as opposed to real world improvements. Just an example... there are a couple kinds of “white papers”. The technical internal in house only type, then the marketing type. The consumer will only ever be privy to the marketing type and it will be well written, with nice charts and even quite plausible analyses why their design is superior to all others before it. Blah blah blah. They are interesting to read for sure, and do provide good info, but at the end of the day they are marketing papers pure and simple, written to “educate” and hence “sell” the ultimate consumer on whatever it is they’re writing about. As long as people realize that then it’s all good. They’re a good resource as long as you don’t lose sight of where it’s coming from and it’s ultimate purpose. And with social media and “secret” leaks months ahead of an actual release, the buzz is created and built upon. It’s really mind boggling as Mr. Gib rightly implies, and I also agree that it is even more mind boggling that your average bike consumer seems to just eat this stuff up and never even question it.
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r3m
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by r3m

Avaiable in tuby?

Mr.Gib
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by Mr.Gib

Cal, while you sentiment has much merit, I do believe that there are indeed many significant real world improvements. The list is long and includes everything from equipment that has become stronger, lighter, and more reliable, to the many added features, and performance improvements of high end bikes. My objection is simply to the state of some (but not all) marketing communications in the bike industry. Are the authors smart people who think their customers are stupid with a sub high school education? Or are the marketers the stupid and uneducated ones? It can't be both. I guess it varies from situation to situation. Vittoria chart is typical example. Not good.
wheelsONfire wrote: When we ride disc brakes the whole deal of braking is just like a leaving a fart. It happens and then it's over. Nothing planned and nothing to get nervous for.

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TonyM
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by TonyM

Cyclists are humans who bike.
But humans.....so in average they share the same characteristics of an average consumers. And the Marketing nowadays knows better how to “manipulate” consumers. Not only in terms of behaviour but also in terms of their believes. Sad but true.

So it is on the responsibility of us (consumers) to prevent this happening. There are many ways to at least significantly decrease the influence of Marketing etc....

One of the way is i.e. to read WW and such threads

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TonyM
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by TonyM

I also believe that the new Vittoria have some improvements!
I would be very happy however to know which one and more emportant how much so that I can decide if they are significant fir me.

Keen to see the results on the rolling resistance test/ website.

ichobi
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by ichobi

One of my staff writer was at the same event as Matt (who wrote that piece). However despite repeatedly asking the head of r&d to get specific numbers and details (because believe me we are not satisfied with random numbers on the chart either). They were not willing to go into specific details for whatever reason and they have all the rights to do so. And we were not there to grill them. We will have all the time in the world to test the tires later. Site like bicyclerollingresistance will laid it bear if their claims hold any value.

When you see the chart you can choose to believe it or you don’t have to (which is how it should be). The best thing we can do is report what we saw, work with what we have and let the reader decide for themselves, then test the tires once we have our hands on the product.

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TonyM
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by TonyM

Correct. Reporting but also clearly stating that these statements, figures etc....are from the manufacturer.

And that they did not provide more information unfortunately.
And that you will run some test later etc...maybe.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Didn’t mean to imply that there haven’t been any improvements in recent years, because there have been many, I agree. Things are always improving, in general. But because something’s different or new doesn’t automatically make it better. And that’s where the marketing comes in. Marketing can provide the extra “encouragement”if you will, so people can see the light and believe in the miracle presented before them, which may not have been so easy to see at first glance. This just seemed like an appropriate place to say “Beware the marketing”, which would be just as appropriate in so many places.
I do think tire compounds etc have come a long way, so not discounting or bashing these tires at all... they may be great. I don’t know. Would have to try them out. But it’s good to know they have tonnes of graphene in them for sure. That’s a good thing, right? Image
Mr.Gib wrote:...Are the authors smart people who think their customers are stupid with a sub high school education? Or are the marketers the stupid and uneducated ones? It can't be both.
Hmmm... good question but I believe it can indeed be both, to more or lesser degrees. But a good smart marketer does have quite a leg up on the average consumer who mostly just wants to hear someone say great things about what he’s about to spend his money on. The potential buyer is already predisposed to “believing”. The marketer’s job is just to shine the light a bit brighter saying... go to the light.
Last edited by Calnago on Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Weenie


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