Shimano 12speed...

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
kode54
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

i charge my Di2 battery at the most, 2x a year. I have eTap on one bike...but find that I'm constantly charging it versus the Di2.
- Factor 02 Disc + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 3.4AR CK CL hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

When Di2 synchro shift came out one has to get the updated Di2 battery (seat tube version), one that has additional 'memory' according to Shimano. The new battery is slightly lighter but it also has less battery capacity than the original version. It's not a lot less but I did notice it. As someone who doesn't use synchro shift I should have just kept the original battery.

by Weenie


TheRich
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:58 pm
I have Di2 and prefer wired over wireless for my bike. But wireless has benefits to other 'types' of bikes, like a travel bike (one with a breakable frame) or perhaps a MTB. Also one day I wish to get electronic shifting for my tandem. Running an internal wire inside a tandem frame is tricky. Because you can't use the top tube as the captain's seatpost cuts off access via the top tube. And going through the BB is tricky because you have an eccentric BB so the wire has to go through the eccentric. At the moment I can't use eTap AXS on the tandem because I can't get an XDR driver for my special tandem hub.
Assuming your bikes have brakes, I fail to see the big change in eliminating a set of wires that are easily routed with brake cables/hoses.

Breakaway bike? Put the B junction at the break. Tandem? The longest etube wire is 1600mm, or five feet long. It's going to be ugly anyways unless it's....designed for electronic shifting, and then it'll be easy to build.

Swapping batteries every other week? Oh my...

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

TheRich wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:41 am

Swapping batteries every other week? Oh my...

Takes literal seconds? I already have to charge my Garmin (30 hours,) two lights (~10-15 hours) and Assiomas (50 hours) quite often. I don't mind the process at all.

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 705
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

TheRich wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:47 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:43 am
What's the major downside of wireless in your mind, TheRich? Keep one or two CR2032s in your flat kit if you need. Hell, keep a spare eTap derailleur battery too if you see fit...they weigh next to nothing, and take up next to nothing in volume. In reality you probably won't need even need to do that because if one battery dies, you can swap the front and rear.

Wireless is definitely a convenience and it comes with minimal cons IMO. The one major pain in the ass with SRAM eTap is the terrible shifting FD. Wires aren't objectively better as a whole, just different.

Shimano will go wireless when they figure out how to do it without infringing on SRAM's IP.
The downside is unnecessary complexity. Numerous small batteries add complexity and possible points of failure.

While I'd prefer everything to have USB charging and long battery lives, I'll deal with flaky PM battery life because my PM isn't critical to riding my bike. I can stop and fix it, or I can live without power data for that ride. A dead derailleur, otoh, IS critical. Even a low Di2 battery, which allows some functionality, puts a huge dent in enjoying the ride.

You forgot to mention the convenience that eTap provides in normal usage, btw. I see Di2 like tubeless, both options require work (although it is less than with cables). In the non-typical case of building up a bike, you run the wires through the frame (literally taking five minutes because I just did it), but then charging is easier. In the case of a pre-built bike, charging is just easier (and less frequent).

I'm actually kind of curious what higher mileage eTap users do to keep their batteries charged. I charge my Di2 every month because that's the only interval I can remember and if I forget here and there it doesn't matter. From what I've read, that's the minimum for eTap, and forgetting can have major consequences.

The level of fussing going on about four inches of exposed wire going to the rear derailleur is mind boggling.
Whoever you are hearing that from is WAY off. I'm not high mileage but do get 120-140 miles a week. I charge my etap batteries about every 3-4 months. Leaving them attached to derailleurs while bike is on a car rack drains them much faster as the system is constantly going to sleep/waking up. This has a big effect on battery life. I also have battery life indicator field for rear battery activated on my Garmin, so this gives an accurate representation of battery life instead of guessing or waiting for derailleur status lights. Once a month? No way.
Never cheer before you know who is winning

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

3-4 months seems off for eTap unless you're literally never shifting...that would be long for high-mileage Di2 users. SRAM claims 1000km per charge, which is just over 5 weeks for you. I'd rather just charge the batteries on a 2 week schedule and never have to worry about completely draining them.

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wheelbuilder
Posts: 705
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:10 am

by wheelbuilder

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:54 am
3-4 months seems off for eTap unless you're literally never shifting...that would be long for high-mileage Di2 users. SRAM claims 1000km per charge, which is just over 5 weeks for you. I'd rather just charge the batteries on a 2 week schedule and never have to worry about completely draining them.
This is really weird to me and is making me have some serious questions about my memory/sense of time. Bizarre. I have had this set-up since 2016 and don't ever recall a time when I had to charge at five weeks? I will make note on my calendar and report back to this thread.
Never cheer before you know who is winning

moonoi
Posts: 571
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Earth

by moonoi

wheelbuilder wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:07 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:54 am
3-4 months seems off for eTap unless you're literally never shifting...that would be long for high-mileage Di2 users. SRAM claims 1000km per charge, which is just over 5 weeks for you. I'd rather just charge the batteries on a 2 week schedule and never have to worry about completely draining them.
This is really weird to me and is making me have some serious questions about my memory/sense of time. Bizarre. I have had this set-up since 2016 and don't ever recall a time when I had to charge at five weeks? I will make note on my calendar and report back to this thread.
I don't think it's a problem with your memory, I charged my eTap batteries every 2-3 months (2-3000km). However I did remove the batteries everytime I transported the bike anywhere in the car, whereas most of my friends would leave them on and end up charging up every 3-4 weeks.

In fairness to my use case though, I do ride mostly very flat roads, so don't have need shift very often....I've even had the system go to sleep whilst I'm riding and disconnect from my Wahoo bolt :lol:

jlok
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Is there anyway to record and show the no. of shift made every ride?
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Ritxis
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

jlok wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:27 am
Is there anyway to record and show the no. of shift made every ride?
https://di2stats.com/

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

jlok wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:27 am
Is there anyway to record and show the no. of shift made every ride?

My Garmins and ELEMNT record that data onto the FIT file already. Wahoo's ELEMNT app shows the number of shifts and your favorite gear combo as well.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

why would you want to know? too much info. My favourite gear is the gear I am in. If I dont like it I can change it.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:27 pm
why would you want to know? too much info. My favourite gear is the gear I am in. If I dont like it I can change it.

You can choose to ignore the data if that is your preference. The data is being collected and it costs nothing to present in a fashion that piques our curiosity. I think it’s interesting to see that I spent the majority of a climb in 34x25 or what not. The data can also be used in more advanced ways such as predicting cassette, chain, chainring wear or identifying how many times you performed “bad shifts.” It can also be used to augment a battery life remaining estimation. Stuff like that. Data is awesome.

jlok
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

When people say they dont shift too many times I'd like to see data rather than description alone. There must be reason why some people need to recharge sooner rather than later.
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

by Weenie


moonoi
Posts: 571
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Earth

by moonoi

jlok wrote:When people say they dont shift too many times I'd like to see data rather than description alone. There must be reason why some people need to recharge sooner rather than later.
Here's the data from my usual Sunday club ride if it helps you

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