Shimano 12speed...

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Di2 does allow dop bar STI and MTB RD so I dont have to fork out

by Weenie


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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

MagicShite wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm
I really appreciate a 11-40 cassette. It would make hunting KOMs so much easier for some of the climbs I have here.
On my tandem I'm using the Ultegra 8000 GS mechanical RD with a 11-40 cassette. The shadow RD has a great B screw adjustment range to accommodate a large cassette. Shifting is perfect and no Wolftooth RoadLink is needed. So you don't need the XTR RD to run the 11-40. The 8050 GS RD will do just fine.

MyM3Coupe
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:32 pm

by MyM3Coupe

bruno2000 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:42 am
. . . , I can not imagine not one japanese engineer getting nervous?
Why? 12 speed on the road is useless to 99% of the riding public.

TheRich
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

pedale wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:14 am
Wireless is a nice plus for this “one bike for everything” trend. A 650b set of wheels with wide 1x cassette and a narrower one with 28 tires and 2x. If you’re ready to change the crankset, fitting a front derailleur wirelessly won’t take you much more time.
People commonly change the crankset, the chain, and set up a front derailleur? After all that, snaking the FD wire through the frame isn't a big deal, or you can tie a string around the wire and leave it hanging out the access hole, or you could even tape over the access hole and the wire.

Routing etube wires isn't that hard, feed it into the frame and let gravity do the work.

eTap's big innovation is that it "goes to eleven."

Alfus
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:34 pm

by Alfus

MyM3Coupe wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:08 pm
bruno2000 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:42 am
. . . , I can not imagine not one japanese engineer getting nervous?
Why? 12 speed on the road is useless to 99% of the riding public.
Everybody says the same about 11S., 10S., etc....... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

pedale
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:06 pm

by pedale

TheRich wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:11 pm
pedale wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:14 am
Wireless is a nice plus for this “one bike for everything” trend. A 650b set of wheels with wide 1x cassette and a narrower one with 28 tires and 2x. If you’re ready to change the crankset, fitting a front derailleur wirelessly won’t take you much more time.
People commonly change the crankset, the chain, and set up a front derailleur? After all that, snaking the FD wire through the frame isn't a big deal, or you can tie a string around the wire and leave it hanging out the access hole, or you could even tape over the access hole and the wire.

Routing etube wires isn't that hard, feed it into the frame and let gravity do the work.

eTap's big innovation is that it "goes to eleven."
I prefer di2 but can't see myself riding with a loose cable to my crank risking to break my carbon frame if picked. Changing chain + crank and installing FD, I think I can do that in 15min, throw the e-tube app on windows and fishing a cable in a tight aero frame and that easily doubles the time.

Karvalo
Posts: 737
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

TheRich wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:11 pm
eTap's big innovation is that it "goes to eleven."
Wasn't eTap the last to eleven?

pedale
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:06 pm

by pedale

Alfus wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:12 pm
MyM3Coupe wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:08 pm
bruno2000 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:42 am
. . . , I can not imagine not one japanese engineer getting nervous?
Why? 12 speed on the road is useless to 99% of the riding public.
Everybody says the same about 11S., 10S., etc....... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Marketing dep asked the Japanese engineer to go to 12, and he'll patiently wait new xtr to be fully available before promising anything.

TheRich
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:43 am
What's the major downside of wireless in your mind, TheRich? Keep one or two CR2032s in your flat kit if you need. Hell, keep a spare eTap derailleur battery too if you see fit...they weigh next to nothing, and take up next to nothing in volume. In reality you probably won't need even need to do that because if one battery dies, you can swap the front and rear.

Wireless is definitely a convenience and it comes with minimal cons IMO. The one major pain in the ass with SRAM eTap is the terrible shifting FD. Wires aren't objectively better as a whole, just different.

Shimano will go wireless when they figure out how to do it without infringing on SRAM's IP.
The downside is unnecessary complexity. Numerous small batteries add complexity and possible points of failure.

While I'd prefer everything to have USB charging and long battery lives, I'll deal with flaky PM battery life because my PM isn't critical to riding my bike. I can stop and fix it, or I can live without power data for that ride. A dead derailleur, otoh, IS critical. Even a low Di2 battery, which allows some functionality, puts a huge dent in enjoying the ride.

You forgot to mention the convenience that eTap provides in normal usage, btw. I see Di2 like tubeless, both options require work (although it is less than with cables). In the non-typical case of building up a bike, you run the wires through the frame (literally taking five minutes because I just did it), but then charging is easier. In the case of a pre-built bike, charging is just easier (and less frequent).

I'm actually kind of curious what higher mileage eTap users do to keep their batteries charged. I charge my Di2 every month because that's the only interval I can remember and if I forget here and there it doesn't matter. From what I've read, that's the minimum for eTap, and forgetting can have major consequences.

The level of fussing going on about four inches of exposed wire going to the rear derailleur is mind boggling.

MagicShite
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:33 pm

by MagicShite

Ritxis wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:52 pm
MagicShite wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm
Don't really care about 12 speed to be honest, but the Road AXS compatibility with eagle derailleurs really turned me on.

I just wished shimano could do something like this, especially mechanically. The current Di2 Doesn't allow you to mix and match derailleurs, which is a bummer.

I really appreciate a 11-40 cassette. It would make hunting KOMs so much easier for some of the climbs I have here.

You know you can use Ultegra/Dura-ace Di2 levers with XT/XTR rear derailleurs???
But can you do this with Duraace/Ultegra FD at the same time? I just need the XT/XTR rear derailleur for the capacity...

TheRich
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

pedale wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:29 pm
TheRich wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:11 pm
pedale wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:14 am
Wireless is a nice plus for this “one bike for everything” trend. A 650b set of wheels with wide 1x cassette and a narrower one with 28 tires and 2x. If you’re ready to change the crankset, fitting a front derailleur wirelessly won’t take you much more time.
People commonly change the crankset, the chain, and set up a front derailleur? After all that, snaking the FD wire through the frame isn't a big deal, or you can tie a string around the wire and leave it hanging out the access hole, or you could even tape over the access hole and the wire.

Routing etube wires isn't that hard, feed it into the frame and let gravity do the work.

eTap's big innovation is that it "goes to eleven."
I prefer di2 but can't see myself riding with a loose cable to my crank risking to break my carbon frame if picked. Changing chain + crank and installing FD, I think I can do that in 15min, throw the e-tube app on windows and fishing a cable in a tight aero frame and that easily doubles the time.
You don't have to use the etube app, ever. I rode my Synapse for years without plugging it into a computer.

Like I said, you can just tape the wire to the seat tube, leaving an unobtrusive looking stripe around it. In any case, that's a rare occurrence and not even close to the hardest part of what is already a relatively time consuming process.

So is it any louder?
But it goes to eleven...

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I have Di2 and prefer wired over wireless for my bike. But wireless has benefits to other 'types' of bikes, like a travel bike (one with a breakable frame) or perhaps a MTB. Also one day I wish to get electronic shifting for my tandem. Running an internal wire inside a tandem frame is tricky. Because you can't use the top tube as the captain's seatpost cuts off access via the top tube. And going through the BB is tricky because you have an eccentric BB so the wire has to go through the eccentric. At the moment I can't use eTap AXS on the tandem because I can't get an XDR driver for my special tandem hub.

Running low on the Di2 battery did happen to me twice. Not because I forgot to charge it frequently but due to the extreme cold temp. that caused the battery to go from half empty to empty. When riding in the extreme cold (<25F) one has to make sure any kind of rechargeble battery is at least 70% full. But I was able to limp home with a functional RD. Now in the winter I make a habit of charging my Di2 battery once every two weeks, at a minimum, regardless of what the battery level indicator says. In the summer my charge frequence is much longer. The same cold/battery issue will happen to eTap too, but maybe more so since the battery's capacity is way less than Di2's.

MyM3Coupe
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:32 pm

by MyM3Coupe

TheRich wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:47 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:43 am
The level of fussing going on about four inches of exposed wire going to the rear derailleur is mind boggling.
Must be something to it, as Sagan won the 2018 Paris Roubaix using 9100 mechanical.

Ritxis
Posts: 382
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

MyM3Coupe wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:23 pm
TheRich wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:47 pm
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:43 am
The level of fussing going on about four inches of exposed wire going to the rear derailleur is mind boggling.
Must be something to it, as Sagan won the 2018 Paris Roubaix using 9100 mechanical.
Before Sagan has not won in Roubaix with electronic?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4188
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

TheRich wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:47 pm

I'm actually kind of curious what higher mileage eTap users do to keep their batteries charged. I charge my Di2 every month because that's the only interval I can remember and if I forget here and there it doesn't matter. From what I've read, that's the minimum for eTap, and forgetting can have major consequences.

I simply own several sets of batteries (more than one eTap bike) and two chargers. Every 2 weeks, I replace the batteries regardless of remaining charge. It’s not hard. As soon as I install the freshly charged batteries, the partially drained set goes on the two chargers.

by Weenie


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