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Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:15 pm
by liam7020
eric01 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:50 pm
The march towards additional gears and obsolescence of older kit is inevitable. You shouldn’t let this deter you from buying gear now that you could be enjoying for years to come.

The current gen 9100 really is good stuff. So is 9000 for that matter.

Lifes too short. Go out and ride.
This x 100!!!

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:15 pm
by Weenie

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:53 pm
by Fisherfreerider
Whenever it comes out we all know it will be at least a year until you can get it.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:27 pm
by vanmatthew
After seeing SRAM, I kind of wish I didn't move to eTap and found a bike for my Di2 Set up (Bought a Canyon mechanical only frame and installed eTap). I'm sure they would have kept the shifters backwards compatible like when they went from 10sp to 11sp.

Now I'm "stuck" (I'm actually happy with 11 sp eTap) with a system that can't be upgraded.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:40 pm
by bm0p700f
7403, 7700 and 7800 is really good kit too.

Old kit is not obselete. You need to stop this king like that.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:43 am
by FelixTheCat
The best groupset is the one you use.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:16 am
by TheRich
madik wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:06 am
I think the best case scenario would be wired FD and RD with battery which would have wireless capability. And wireless shifters that would connect into battery's wireless module. In this configuration we would have the same good battery life as the current di2 has. Much easier installation specialy around the front end. No more expensive and cluncy junction boxes. Just two di2 cables insted of 5-6 as is required now? di2 cables are ridiculously expensive for what they are and dont make me start about the junction boxes and their prices. Shifters still could have cable ports for sprint shifter and so on, therefore it could still be possible to connect it with old battery for example.
That would be just happy days. We will see.
What is the value gained from wireless shifters? (Which also begs the question of what is the value gained from wireless in general)

One battery, that lasts a long time, that can be charged on the bicycle, has value. Those are all idiot-proofing measures, because everyone is an idiot now and then. Instant response because of constant communication also has value. If you go wireless, you lose that value and end up with a more finiky system.

Competitors should learn from each other, but not blindly chase after worthless features. eTap is full of worthless features.

I'd consider upgrading when my current cassette wore out, assuming it would just take a new derailleur, cassette, chain and possibly driver...although I don't see 10t cassettes on the road as a sure thing. They don't add any value to a road bike like they do to a mountain bike.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:43 am
by TobinHatesYou
What's the major downside of wireless in your mind, TheRich? Keep one or two CR2032s in your flat kit if you need. Hell, keep a spare eTap derailleur battery too if you see fit...they weigh next to nothing, and take up next to nothing in volume. In reality you probably won't need even need to do that because if one battery dies, you can swap the front and rear.

Wireless is definitely a convenience and it comes with minimal cons IMO. The one major pain in the ass with SRAM eTap is the terrible shifting FD. Wires aren't objectively better as a whole, just different.

Shimano will go wireless when they figure out how to do it without infringing on SRAM's IP.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:04 am
by mattr
Wireless is a one-time-per-build convenience, that's it.
Actually in use, it's of no use at all. No added convenience. There was an added level of "neatness" with some wireless installs, but looking at the level
now achieveable with Di2 and EPS, thats pretty much a non starter now. Mostly wireless is adding complexity, especially to signalling "issues".

It's just a shame that they couldn't agree on a single frame based cabling architecture and connector standard. Then an "electric ready" frame could come with wires already installed, just fit groupset of choice. (Campag/Shimano) As that's the only real issue with wired, installation. Especially if you are trying to do it piecemeal into an already part assembled bike.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:14 am
by pedale
Wireless is a nice plus for this “one bike for everything” trend. A 650b set of wheels with wide 1x cassette and a narrower one with 28 tires and 2x. If you’re ready to change the crankset, fitting a front derailleur wirelessly won’t take you much more time.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:09 am
by TobinHatesYou
pedale wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:14 am
Wireless is a nice plus for this “one bike for everything” trend. A 650b set of wheels with wide 1x cassette and a narrower one with 28 tires and 2x. If you’re ready to change the crankset, fitting a front derailleur wirelessly won’t take you much more time.

Also add into the picture the fact that AXS is a network of more than just drivetrain components. It supports dropper posts, suspension lockouts, Quarq power meters, etc. It replaces more than just two wires...it replaces as many wires/hoses as you need (besides the brakes of course.) If the one con of wireless is separate batteries, that's a worthwhile trade to me. Changing a pair of CR2032s every 2 years isn't a big deal. Those that are paranoid can do it every Jan 1 or something.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:31 am
by tarmackev
liam7020 wrote:
eric01 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:50 pm
The march towards additional gears and obsolescence of older kit is inevitable. You shouldn’t let this deter you from buying gear now that you could be enjoying for years to come.

The current gen 9100 really is good stuff. So is 9000 for that matter.

Lifes too short. Go out and ride.
This x 100!!!
Wrong place guys!
This is weight weenies! A forum based entirely on new gear, tech and light weight.
If O.P can’t ask the question on this forum then where can he? Image


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Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm
by MagicShite
Don't really care about 12 speed to be honest, but the Road AXS compatibility with eagle derailleurs really turned me on.

I just wished shimano could do something like this, especially mechanically. The current Di2 Doesn't allow you to mix and match derailleurs, which is a bummer.

I really appreciate a 11-40 cassette. It would make hunting KOMs so much easier for some of the climbs I have here.

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:52 pm
by Ritxis
MagicShite wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm
Don't really care about 12 speed to be honest, but the Road AXS compatibility with eagle derailleurs really turned me on.

I just wished shimano could do something like this, especially mechanically. The current Di2 Doesn't allow you to mix and match derailleurs, which is a bummer.

I really appreciate a 11-40 cassette. It would make hunting KOMs so much easier for some of the climbs I have here.

You know you can use Ultegra/Dura-ace Di2 levers with XT/XTR rear derailleurs???

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:02 pm
by Philbar72
eric01 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:50 pm
The march towards additional gears and obsolescence of older kit is inevitable. You shouldn’t let this deter you from buying gear now that you could be enjoying for years to come.

The current gen 9100 really is good stuff. So is 9000 for that matter.

Lifes too short. Go out and ride.
this x 10000. the 9100 i have on the Wilier is just the best mechanical shifting i've ever used. no need to replace it. its good enough!

Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:02 pm
by ultimobici
Ritxis wrote:
MagicShite wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm
Don't really care about 12 speed to be honest, but the Road AXS compatibility with eagle derailleurs really turned me on.

I just wished shimano could do something like this, especially mechanically. The current Di2 Doesn't allow you to mix and match derailleurs, which is a bummer.

I really appreciate a 11-40 cassette. It would make hunting KOMs so much easier for some of the climbs I have here.

You know you can use Ultegra/Dura-ace Di2 levers with XT/XTR rear derailleurs???
Plus AXS only allows either Red in 1x & 2x OR Eagle 1x with drop bar levers. Di2 allows you to have 1x, 2x or even 3x. All you have to do is use matched mechs.


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Re: Shimano 12speed...

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:02 pm
by Weenie