Shimano 12speed...

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
liam7020
Posts: 1000
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 am

by liam7020

eric01 wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:50 pm
The march towards additional gears and obsolescence of older kit is inevitable. You shouldn’t let this deter you from buying gear now that you could be enjoying for years to come.

The current gen 9100 really is good stuff. So is 9000 for that matter.

Lifes too short. Go out and ride.
This x 100!!!
Tarmac SL6 & Campag Record EPS https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... 0&t=153968

"Sometimes you don't need a plan. You just need big balls." Tom Boonen

Fisherfreerider
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:19 am

by Fisherfreerider

Whenever it comes out we all know it will be at least a year until you can get it.

by Weenie


vanmatthew
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:20 am

by vanmatthew

After seeing SRAM, I kind of wish I didn't move to eTap and found a bike for my Di2 Set up (Bought a Canyon mechanical only frame and installed eTap). I'm sure they would have kept the shifters backwards compatible like when they went from 10sp to 11sp.

Now I'm "stuck" (I'm actually happy with 11 sp eTap) with a system that can't be upgraded.

bm0p700f
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

7403, 7700 and 7800 is really good kit too.

Old kit is not obselete. You need to stop this king like that.

FelixTheCat
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:55 am

by FelixTheCat

The best groupset is the one you use.

TheRich
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

by TheRich

madik wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:06 am
I think the best case scenario would be wired FD and RD with battery which would have wireless capability. And wireless shifters that would connect into battery's wireless module. In this configuration we would have the same good battery life as the current di2 has. Much easier installation specialy around the front end. No more expensive and cluncy junction boxes. Just two di2 cables insted of 5-6 as is required now? di2 cables are ridiculously expensive for what they are and dont make me start about the junction boxes and their prices. Shifters still could have cable ports for sprint shifter and so on, therefore it could still be possible to connect it with old battery for example.
That would be just happy days. We will see.
What is the value gained from wireless shifters? (Which also begs the question of what is the value gained from wireless in general)

One battery, that lasts a long time, that can be charged on the bicycle, has value. Those are all idiot-proofing measures, because everyone is an idiot now and then. Instant response because of constant communication also has value. If you go wireless, you lose that value and end up with a more finiky system.

Competitors should learn from each other, but not blindly chase after worthless features. eTap is full of worthless features.

I'd consider upgrading when my current cassette wore out, assuming it would just take a new derailleur, cassette, chain and possibly driver...although I don't see 10t cassettes on the road as a sure thing. They don't add any value to a road bike like they do to a mountain bike.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3795
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

What's the major downside of wireless in your mind, TheRich? Keep one or two CR2032s in your flat kit if you need. Hell, keep a spare eTap derailleur battery too if you see fit...they weigh next to nothing, and take up next to nothing in volume. In reality you probably won't need even need to do that because if one battery dies, you can swap the front and rear.

Wireless is definitely a convenience and it comes with minimal cons IMO. The one major pain in the ass with SRAM eTap is the terrible shifting FD. Wires aren't objectively better as a whole, just different.

Shimano will go wireless when they figure out how to do it without infringing on SRAM's IP.

mattr
Posts: 4637
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Wireless is a one-time-per-build convenience, that's it.
Actually in use, it's of no use at all. No added convenience. There was an added level of "neatness" with some wireless installs, but looking at the level
now achieveable with Di2 and EPS, thats pretty much a non starter now. Mostly wireless is adding complexity, especially to signalling "issues".

It's just a shame that they couldn't agree on a single frame based cabling architecture and connector standard. Then an "electric ready" frame could come with wires already installed, just fit groupset of choice. (Campag/Shimano) As that's the only real issue with wired, installation. Especially if you are trying to do it piecemeal into an already part assembled bike.

pedale
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:06 pm

by pedale

Wireless is a nice plus for this “one bike for everything” trend. A 650b set of wheels with wide 1x cassette and a narrower one with 28 tires and 2x. If you’re ready to change the crankset, fitting a front derailleur wirelessly won’t take you much more time.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 3795
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

pedale wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:14 am
Wireless is a nice plus for this “one bike for everything” trend. A 650b set of wheels with wide 1x cassette and a narrower one with 28 tires and 2x. If you’re ready to change the crankset, fitting a front derailleur wirelessly won’t take you much more time.

Also add into the picture the fact that AXS is a network of more than just drivetrain components. It supports dropper posts, suspension lockouts, Quarq power meters, etc. It replaces more than just two wires...it replaces as many wires/hoses as you need (besides the brakes of course.) If the one con of wireless is separate batteries, that's a worthwhile trade to me. Changing a pair of CR2032s every 2 years isn't a big deal. Those that are paranoid can do it every Jan 1 or something.

tarmackev
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:59 pm

by tarmackev

liam7020 wrote:
eric01 wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:50 pm
The march towards additional gears and obsolescence of older kit is inevitable. You shouldn’t let this deter you from buying gear now that you could be enjoying for years to come.

The current gen 9100 really is good stuff. So is 9000 for that matter.

Lifes too short. Go out and ride.
This x 100!!!
Wrong place guys!
This is weight weenies! A forum based entirely on new gear, tech and light weight.
If O.P can’t ask the question on this forum then where can he? Image


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MagicShite
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:33 pm

by MagicShite

Don't really care about 12 speed to be honest, but the Road AXS compatibility with eagle derailleurs really turned me on.

I just wished shimano could do something like this, especially mechanically. The current Di2 Doesn't allow you to mix and match derailleurs, which is a bummer.

I really appreciate a 11-40 cassette. It would make hunting KOMs so much easier for some of the climbs I have here.

Ritxis
Posts: 348
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
Location: San Sebastian

by Ritxis

MagicShite wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm
Don't really care about 12 speed to be honest, but the Road AXS compatibility with eagle derailleurs really turned me on.

I just wished shimano could do something like this, especially mechanically. The current Di2 Doesn't allow you to mix and match derailleurs, which is a bummer.

I really appreciate a 11-40 cassette. It would make hunting KOMs so much easier for some of the climbs I have here.

You know you can use Ultegra/Dura-ace Di2 levers with XT/XTR rear derailleurs???

Philbar72
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:47 am

by Philbar72

eric01 wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:50 pm
The march towards additional gears and obsolescence of older kit is inevitable. You shouldn’t let this deter you from buying gear now that you could be enjoying for years to come.

The current gen 9100 really is good stuff. So is 9000 for that matter.

Lifes too short. Go out and ride.
this x 10000. the 9100 i have on the Wilier is just the best mechanical shifting i've ever used. no need to replace it. its good enough!

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ultimobici
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Location: London, UK
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by ultimobici

Ritxis wrote:
MagicShite wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 pm
Don't really care about 12 speed to be honest, but the Road AXS compatibility with eagle derailleurs really turned me on.

I just wished shimano could do something like this, especially mechanically. The current Di2 Doesn't allow you to mix and match derailleurs, which is a bummer.

I really appreciate a 11-40 cassette. It would make hunting KOMs so much easier for some of the climbs I have here.

You know you can use Ultegra/Dura-ace Di2 levers with XT/XTR rear derailleurs???
Plus AXS only allows either Red in 1x & 2x OR Eagle 1x with drop bar levers. Di2 allows you to have 1x, 2x or even 3x. All you have to do is use matched mechs.


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by Weenie


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