First powermeter - P2M NgEco / Favero Assioma Duo

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2424
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Thanks for the detailed response Eugene. Well, maybe it's a good thing that I only own one PM. I really do think that minor anomalies are just the nature of the beast on PMs. I have read many of DCRainmakers' PM reviews and basically he's saying that most of the mainstream PMs are very good in terms of accuracy. If you look at the power data in detail you'll never see two PMs read the same. One will be higher at times and lower at other times. Now I think 5% diff. is quite substantial and I hope those are very isolated incidents (you mentioned 2-3 sessions out of 100).

On the power loss between the Quarq and Vector, I gave it more thought and I think you are correct. The Quarq is calibrated with a known weight at the pedal axle. So the power reading on a Quarq is determined by the amount of force applied at the pedal. The power measurement ignores the flexing of crank assembly and also any frictional losses in the BB bearings.

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4301
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:58 am
Thanks for the detailed response Eugene. Well, maybe it's a good thing that I only own one PM. I really do think that minor anomalies are just the nature of the beast on PMs. I have read many of DCRainmakers' PM reviews and basically he's saying that most of the mainstream PMs are very good in terms of accuracy. If you look at the power data in detail you'll never see two PMs read the same. One will be higher at times and lower at other times. Now I think 5% diff. is quite substantial and I hope those are very isolated incidents (you mentioned 2-3 sessions out of 100).

On the power loss between the Quarq and Vector, I gave it more thought and I think you are correct. The Quarq is calibrated with a known weight at the pedal axle. So the power reading on a Quarq is determined by the amount of force applied at the pedal. The power measurement ignores the flexing of crank assembly and also any frictional losses in the BB bearings.

I think that yes, instantaneous power may differ from one recording to another due to the nature of polling rates and filtering, and I do think that most power meters are sufficiently accurate. Averaging power over 60 minutes should result in numbers within 1-2W. I don't mind when the Quarq is within 1-2W, it's more the rare occasion where it jumps to ~10W off that bugs me.

The Quarq is one of my newer PMs, so I probably only have 30 or so indoor sessions with it. A handful of rides out of 30 with it being pretty far off is a bit more substantial than the 100 total with various combinations. It's enough data, though, to see trends and I am confident that the Quarq's numbers are more variable than the others from ride to ride.

Perhaps my particular Quarq is faulty, but its offset never varies more than 20 when they say 50 is acceptable. I need to add a P2M to my collection at some point.

Pinguin
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:11 am
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:58 am
Thanks for the detailed response Eugene. Well, maybe it's a good thing that I only own one PM. I really do think that minor anomalies are just the nature of the beast on PMs. I have read many of DCRainmakers' PM reviews and basically he's saying that most of the mainstream PMs are very good in terms of accuracy. If you look at the power data in detail you'll never see two PMs read the same. One will be higher at times and lower at other times. Now I think 5% diff. is quite substantial and I hope those are very isolated incidents (you mentioned 2-3 sessions out of 100).

On the power loss between the Quarq and Vector, I gave it more thought and I think you are correct. The Quarq is calibrated with a known weight at the pedal axle. So the power reading on a Quarq is determined by the amount of force applied at the pedal. The power measurement ignores the flexing of crank assembly and also any frictional losses in the BB bearings.

I think that yes, instantaneous power may differ from one recording to another due to the nature of polling rates and filtering, and I do think that most power meters are sufficiently accurate. Averaging power over 60 minutes should result in numbers within 1-2W. I don't mind when the Quarq is within 1-2W, it's more the rare occasion where it jumps to ~10W off that bugs me.

The Quarq is one of my newer PMs, so I probably only have 30 or so indoor sessions with it. A handful of rides out of 30 with it being pretty far off is a bit more substantial than the 100 total with various combinations. It's enough data, though, to see trends and I am confident that the Quarq's numbers are more variable than the others from ride to ride.

Perhaps my particular Quarq is faulty, but its offset never varies more than 20 when they say 50 is acceptable. I need to add a P2M to my collection at some point.
Tobin if you buy a new Pm now,which one would you choose?

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 4301
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Pinguin wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:12 pm

Tobin if you buy a new Pm now,which one would you choose?

Favero Assioma Duo.

Pinguin
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

I have no decision about those P2max and Assiomas
Technical aspect i think the P2max is bulletproof,but the Assiomas are not troublefree and have some Softwareproblems what i read in the past more than P2max
Price is on both very good compare with Srm

All in all i think P2max is the little better choice

cnynrpr
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:41 pm

by cnynrpr

I currently own Powertap P1 pedals and just bought the NGeco. The P1 has had bearing wear every 1-2 years or so, they're not user replaceable. The Favero assioma seems to have user replaceable bearings for $37 for the kit, so that would be nice, it is something I would account for with owning power pedals (at least it is for the P1, I'm only assuming with the Assiomas).

My suggestion is if you travel and rent bikes many times during the year, the Favero Assioma would be the one I would get and in fact, I plan to purchase them when the P1 pedals go caput. I would account for bearing service costs with owning power pedals based on my experience, albeit with a different brand. If you never ever travel and rent bikes then get the NGeco, simpler.

AZR3
Posts: 821
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: Az USA

by AZR3

cnynrpr wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:46 am
I currently own Powertap P1 pedals and just bought the NGeco. The P1 has had bearing wear every 1-2 years or so, they're not user replaceable. The Favero assioma seems to have user replaceable bearings for $37 for the kit, so that would be nice, it is something I would account for with owning power pedals (at least it is for the P1, I'm only assuming with the Assiomas).

My suggestion is if you travel and rent bikes many times during the year, the Favero Assioma would be the one I would get and in fact, I plan to purchase them when the P1 pedals go caput. I would account for bearing service costs with owning power pedals based on my experience, albeit with a different brand. If you never ever travel and rent bikes then get the NGeco, simpler.
That's a big plus for the Assioma pedals, you can replace the bearings or even the entire pedal body without sending it out.

backdoor
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue May 21, 2019 9:54 pm

by backdoor


AZR3 wrote:
That's a big plus for the Assioma pedals, you can replace the bearings or even the entire pedal body without sending it out.
I just bought a pair of the Assioma pedals. Quite a few reasons I went with them -
1. Cheap. Duo option for less than $600usd shipped, Uno for $400
2. They are fairly simple. It's basically an Xpedo pedal with a power meter on the spindle. Xpedo builds many of their pedals on the same axle. This means you can swap out the pedal with many other Xpedo pedals including their (slightly) lighter SL carbon pedals or one of their SPD pedal bodies. So you can have power based SPD pedals. All the parts (even the power meter spindle itself) are replaceable.
3. Easy to swap between bikes. Can travel with you and throw on rental or borrowed bikes.
4. Amazingly accurate.
5. They now support Cycling dynamics and power phase.





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TribesMan
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:51 pm

by TribesMan

I've been using Assioma Duos for 18 months now, around 19.000km ridden.
Not one issue with them, rock solid.
Clip-in is a bit tighter compared to standard Look Keos, but you get used to it.
Battery life is easily over 50 hours.

I can't recommend them enough.

robertbb
Posts: 1104
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

backdoor wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:38 am
AZR3 wrote:
That's a big plus for the Assioma pedals, you can replace the bearings or even the entire pedal body without sending it out.
I just bought a pair of the Assioma pedals. Quite a few reasons I went with them -
1. Cheap. Duo option for less than $600usd shipped, Uno for $400
2. They are fairly simple. It's basically an Xpedo pedal with a power meter on the spindle. Xpedo builds many of their pedals on the same axle. This means you can swap out the pedal with many other Xpedo pedals including their (slightly) lighter SL carbon pedals or one of their SPD pedal bodies. So you can have power based SPD pedals. All the parts (even the power meter spindle itself) are replaceable.
3. Easy to swap between bikes. Can travel with you and throw on rental or borrowed bikes.
4. Amazingly accurate.
5. They now support Cycling dynamics and power phase.
6: more environmentally friendly as they are recharegable (don't throw batteries away)
7: more convenient (won't need to keep a stock of batteries on hand)
8: lower stack height than any other PM pedals
9: lighter than any other PM pedals
10: The electronics are inboard, so way less likely to get damaged in a crash
11: the sealed resin design is superior in every way...

....

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