When will you buy eTap AXS?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

The question is when...?

Poll ended at Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:50 am

Right NOW!
8
3%
Soon, when I get a better deal.
10
3%
April, when Force eTap AXS would appear.
18
6%
Want it, but no plan.
46
16%
My current groupset is just fine.
198
69%
Never! Single Speed FTW!
7
2%
 
Total votes: 287

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 8413
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Alexbn921 wrote: Dub is better than GXP and fits most frames.
Serious question: Why is DUB better? Better than what?
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yinzerniner
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

Calnago wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Alexbn921 wrote: Dub is better than GXP and fits most frames.
Serious question: Why is DUB better? Better than what?
Supposedly because it can still use large enough bearings that roll efficiently and have long wear life while also having the increased weight/stiffness ratio of a larger spindle diameter.
In actual practice - who knows. Have never heard of anyone having issues with the newest 8 bolt gxp arms, and think the weight diffference is negligible.
Gxp is a pretty stupid “standard” anyways with the 24/22 spindle differences only being there to differentiate from shimano.

Would be interesting to see how many people opt for the 8 bolt crankset hack for fitting it to the Dub spiders just to avoid the drab looking Red and Force AXS arms.

by Weenie


User avatar
Alexbn921
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

Calnago wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Alexbn921 wrote: Dub is better than GXP and fits most frames.
Serious question: Why is DUB better? Better than what?
Dub is lighter than GXP and uses standard 30mm bearings with a 1mm reducer. This isolates the possible spindle wear and creaking with direct spindle to bearing interface. It also captures the bearings from both sides like 30mm and Shimano cranks. GXP only has one captured bearing and one floating side. This cause trouble on press fit frames as the bearing can get pushed out/rock in the frame. Having to running GXP in BB90 was one of the main reasons I didn’t buy a Madone. Shimano would have been fine, but they don’t have 12 speed.

IMO Shimano angular contact, double captured, preloaded bearings are the best system. 30 or 29mm spindles are lighter though.

I'm using BBinfinite 1 piece Dub BB with internal bearing alignment sleeve. You can run very high preload as it doesn't change the alignment of the bearings.

jlok
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

The bearings of DUB are not captured. GXP NDS bearing is.
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

yinya
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:06 pm

by yinya

How real is the faster wear issue? I understand in any given gear ratio you’ll be in a smaller chainring and cassette gear vs the traditional setup, is it linear to total surface area in contact with the chain? So what does that translate to in terms of wear, anybody has the math? I am not familiar with the suntour case.

And I was waiting for the new etap expecting to be able to upgrade with new shifters and derailleurs only. So staying on mech for the foreseeable future.


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User avatar
Alexbn921
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

jlok wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:24 pm
The bearings of DUB are not captured. GXP NDS bearing is.
I was more taking of captured between the frame and crank flanges. GPX bearing has no exteral force holding them in the frame. Shimano bearings can't fall out or work out of the frame. Same for 30mm axles.

jlok
Posts: 1040
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

GxP DS bearing is pushed by wavy spacer, it's still kind of being captured. In practice I have never experienced moved GxP bearings due to pedaling side force. Anyone care to calculate how much side force towards NDS is needed to push the NDS bearing out? How one should be pedaling to make it happen?
Litespeed T1sl Disc / BMC TM02 < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

zinedrei
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:36 am

by zinedrei

is there a "default" rotor that's included in a boxed groupset?
or is it something that can be specified upon order? ie centerlock instead of 6bolt?

User avatar
Alexbn921
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 pm

by Alexbn921

zinedrei wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:34 pm
is there a "default" rotor that's included in a boxed groupset?
or is it something that can be specified upon order? ie centerlock instead of 6bolt?
Default 6 bolt 160mm. No options.

zinedrei
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:36 am

by zinedrei

Alexbn921 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:05 pm
zinedrei wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:34 pm
is there a "default" rotor that's included in a boxed groupset?
or is it something that can be specified upon order? ie centerlock instead of 6bolt?
Default 6 bolt 160mm. No options.
thank you. i just got my groupset from my LBS after waiting for a month and wasn't able to check the contents since I was too excited to go home with it. i should've opened it in the store since the chainset is incorrect (48/35 instead of 46/33 i ordered) and the rotors which were in 6bolt config.

hopefully they can sort out the rotor thing since my new wheelset is in centerlock config already.

Nejmann
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon May 06, 2013 6:25 pm

by Nejmann

Calnago wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Alexbn921 wrote: Dub is better than GXP and fits most frames.
Serious question: Why is DUB better? Better than what?
:lol:

zinedrei
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:36 am

by zinedrei

question on the blips please.

are the old 11s blips compatible with AXS?

and is it alright if i "fold" or roll the cables?
for some reason, the longer (650mm) cable is cheaper than the shorter (230mm) one with around 20usd difference which i'd rather spend on something else if possible

or should i get the 450mm one if i want to put the buttons on top of my drop bar (almost middle-ish)?

sandbox
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:30 pm

by sandbox

yinzerniner wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:03 pm
Calnago wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:52 pm
Alexbn921 wrote: Dub is better than GXP and fits most frames.
Serious question: Why is DUB better? Better than what?
Supposedly because it can still use large enough bearings that roll efficiently and have long wear life while also having the increased weight/stiffness ratio of a larger spindle diameter.
In actual practice - who knows. Have never heard of anyone having issues with the newest 8 bolt gxp arms, and think the weight diffference is negligible.
Gxp is a pretty stupid “standard” anyways with the 24/22 spindle differences only being there to differentiate from shimano.

Would be interesting to see how many people opt for the 8 bolt crankset hack for fitting it to the Dub spiders just to avoid the drab looking Red and Force AXS arms.
Whoa. Missed that possibility. Assume it’s further back in this thread?

yinzerniner
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

sandbox wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:11 pm
Whoa. Missed that possibility. Assume it’s further back in this thread?
See post here. Requires some sanding/shaving down of the ends of the crankset or the ends of the tabs on the chainrings, but doesn't look like it'll effect structural integrity either way.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=152134&start=1170#p1481901

Pics stolen from OP:
Image
Image
Image

Also see here. This poster seems to imply it required no sanding/removal of carbon from crankarms:
viewtopic.php?t=152134&start=1080#p1471978

Maybe because the first post used GXP crankarms instead of the BB30/BB386 crankarms of the second post? Seems possible, as the thinner 24mm GXP spindle might need a bit thicker carbon arms than the 30mm BB30/BB386 spindle

by Weenie


yinzerniner
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

zinedrei wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:49 am
question on the blips please.

are the old 11s blips compatible with AXS?

and is it alright if i "fold" or roll the cables?
for some reason, the longer (650mm) cable is cheaper than the shorter (230mm) one with around 20usd difference which i'd rather spend on something else if possible

or should i get the 450mm one if i want to put the buttons on top of my drop bar (almost middle-ish)?
Old 11s blips are compatible. Even hacked Shimano sprint shifters are compatible since the blips are just buttons that send a small electrical signal to the blip box or shifter input.

List price is all the same for the blips, but if you're looking secondhand then yes 650mm tends to be cheaper than the shorter distances since they're simply not used as much and you have to hide a lot of the extra cable. As for what length to get, only you can decide WRT placement, cost, install, etc.

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