When will you buy eTap AXS?

[Marin]

You mean you have a 10 and a 9 toot cassette that goes onto regular hubs? Then, why has SRAM made a new requirement for their new 10 tooth cassette? Or is the new hub thingie to accommodate 12 speed?

I have XD freehubs on all my wheelsets, you can't fit anything smaller than 11t on a normal freehub.

[Calnago]

I’d like to see a pic of a 9 tooth setup with the chain on. There’s got to be very few teeth actually engaged at any point in time, creating lots of wear and tear and playing havoc with durability. Not to mention the potential for skipping under sprinter power or at the least signs of wear (compared to cogs with more teeth). I had a girlfriend once who just seemed to spend a lot of time crossed small/small despite me trying to get her to use a similar gear ratio but in the big ring, bigger cog and consequently much better chainline. When time came to replace the chain it would completely skip on the smallest cog and so had to get a new cassette. That was how I first discovered her propensity to run crosschained so much, as how else would a 120lb girl wear out a little cog before the others. From a proper functional and durability standpoint I just don’t get the teensy cog thing (11 is the smallest I’d go), except in an attempt to get some proper range with 1x systems. I don’t see any kind of successful future for 1x on the road, aside from grocery store bikes.

[Kjetil]

Your former gf would have been the perfect customer for electronic "auto" chain ring change.
On a side note I'm told that urban e-bikes wear our the 11 in a whiff.

[jlok]

Moral of the story: crosschaining will get you dropped. Just kidding...

[mattr]

I’d like to see a pic of a 9 tooth setup with the chain on.

I've had a play with the Goldtec micro drive and Shimano Capreo, there really isn't much chain wrap. With the mechs to that sort of design you got about 135 degrees of wrap. Think current mechs you might get nearly 180 degrees.

[Calnago]

Your former gf would have been the perfect customer for electronic "auto" chain ring change.
On a side note I'm told that urban e-bikes wear our the 11 in a whiff.

Right you are.

[Calnago]

I’d like to see a pic of a 9 tooth setup with the chain on.

I've had a play with the Goldtec micro drive and Shimano Capreo, there really isn't much chain wrap. With the mechs to that sort of design you got about 135 degrees of wrap. Think current mechs you might get nearly 180 degrees.

So what does that translate to in terms of engaged teeth on a 9 tooth cog? If we assume that a full 180 degree wrap (half the cog) would engage 4.5 teeth, then I would think that realistically you’d have maybe only 3, if that, fully engaged teeth in the chain. I don’t know if that’s something I’d want to know if I were laying down the power in that cog, especially if it had any kind of mileage on it.

[Calnago]

Moral of the story: crosschaining will get you dropped. Just kidding...

Ha, there were other reasons, but for sure that was the main one.

[mattr]

So what does that translate to in terms of engaged teeth on a 9 tooth cog? If we assume that a full 180 degree wrap (half the cog) would engage 4.5 teeth, then I would think that realistically you’d have maybe only 3, if that, fully engaged teeth in the chain. I don’t know if that’s something I’d want to know if I were laying down the power in that cog, especially if it had any kind of mileage on it.

The only person i know with significant mileage on the Goldtec stuff gave up after a couple of seasons. Cassettes were ~3 times the price and half the life before skipping.

[pdlpsher1]

Speaking of a skipping cassette, I just replaced my cassette on my tandem after seeing skipping after I replaced the chain. The skipping was on two gears only, 13 and 15. It’s a 11-40 cassette so no 12 and 14. 11 is fine as we don’t use it as much as 13 and 15. The cassette actually looked fine visually. But I guess due to the extra torque on a tandem the mismatch in wear between the new chain and used cassette was enough to cause skipping under moderately hard pedaling.

On the AXS I suspect any chain skipping won’t be on the 10 cog because the 10 cog won’t be used as much. It’ll be on the 11-14 due to the smaller chainrings. The smaller chainrings will increase the usage on the smaller cogs. It doesn’t help matters when the cassette is $350. But the new Force might offer a cheaper alternative albeit with a weight penalty.

As for a pro putting out 1,500watts on the 10 cog. I suspect it’ll be ok if the cog and chain are new. But it might skip if the chain is new and the cog slightly worn, much like the skipping I saw on our tandem with the 13 and 15.


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[sqber]

9-tooth cassettes have been on the MTB scene for a while now. E.g e13 TRS+. I haven't had a chance to ride one, though

[mattr]

Goldtec was ~20 years ago.
Capreo is ~15 years old.

[RyanH]

What were the others running?

Frank Schleck was on the 3T Exploro bike (so were Dave Z and Stefano Baberi) so I'm guessing they were using 9-32 cassettes with an unknown chainring size up front. We had a good 20-25 with us on the very fast downhill section and the super fast flat section (tailwind). The big guys I know were all on standard and 11-30 in the back. We made quick work of them on deer creek though. After Deer Creek we were down to about 7 people and the few I know were on mid compact with 11-30 on the rear. My friends on mid-compact were fine in the draft on the descent but the big guys were able to attack near the end and they couldn't respond because they were spun out. I got gapped because I went into the descent near the back and people were letting gaps form in front of me which I couldn't close because I was spun out.

53/36 with 11-28 in the back is probably the ideal combo for that day. I may do 53/36 or I may just stick with midcompact since I will probably not encounter a day like that again soon. I dislike 11-30 (and 11-28 to some extent) due to the jumps in gears but I would have chosen that cassette had I known they were going to change the planned course that morning.

[RyanH]

I have a prediction to make. Ryan will be on AXS soon. He needs the 50x10. He’ll let us know how it works out. He’s always honest with his reviews.

I've had enough SRAM groupsets to comfortably say that what they make is subpar, so I doubt I'll be buying anything from them (plus AXS looks terrible). My friend signed a contract with them and is getting AXS soon so I'll be able to get an honest opinion from him. I just think the idea is clever and would like to see Shimano do something similar since it'll be a lot less likely to suck.

[wingguy]

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