When will you buy eTap AXS?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

The question is when...?

Poll ended at Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:50 am

Right NOW!
8
3%
Soon, when I get a better deal.
10
3%
April, when Force eTap AXS would appear.
18
6%
Want it, but no plan.
46
16%
My current groupset is just fine.
198
69%
Never! Single Speed FTW!
7
2%
 
Total votes: 287

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 7948
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Speaking of cadence, my sweet zone is also around 85-86, but I certainly don’t average that over an entire ride. And everyone’s sweet spot is different. That Lance guy had a pretty high cadence versus that Ulrich guy who’s sweet spot was much lower.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


Karvalo
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

Stuartclark1977 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:00 pm
its rollers are the same diameter as a regular chain (or at least on the
Force AXS chain we have here they are). It seems to be an internet
rumour that they're a different diameter.
Except it's not an internet rumor, it's Sram's official statement.

akaspin
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:36 pm

by akaspin

Karvalo wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:58 pm
Stuartclark1977 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:00 pm
its rollers are the same diameter as a regular chain (or at least on the
Force AXS chain we have here they are). It seems to be an internet
rumour that they're a different diameter.
Except it's not an internet rumor, it's Sram's official statement.
IMHO "official statement" is equal to marketing bullshit. The more interesting questions is chainline and FD capacity. According to https://www.sram.com/sites/default/file ... 9_road.pdf chainline and chainring spacing slightly differs. I don't think that it's a big issue. But mostly all aftermarket chainrings are designed in pairs with 16T step while SRAM "officially declares" 13T capacity for AXS FD. Has anyone tried AXS FD with usual 16T-step chanrings?

User avatar
Kjetil
Posts: 1824
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Hamar, Norway
Contact:

by Kjetil

Maybe that's it: SRAM FDs actually manage to do a proper job at 13t step.
Bianchi-Campagnolo
The Specialissima

akaspin
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:36 pm

by akaspin

Kjetil wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:10 am
Maybe that's it: SRAM FDs actually manage to do a proper job at 13t step.
??? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=155526&start=165#p1469882

Hexsense
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am

by Hexsense

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:00 pm
The avg. cadence was 81. Would that be considered low, average, or high when compared to the non-racing population? I would think it's average but for some reason no one that I ride with has a higher cadence than me. I also looked at how I pedal when climbing. I did a 6% climb that lasted 1.2mi. My avg. cadence for the Strava segment was 82.
Kjetil wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:05 pm
I consider myself a spinner, but for some reason my average always ends up at 85-86.
Avg cadence tend to be misleading on many stat info. Because it usually include zero and freewheeling or light pedaling by definition. If you always push down power at 90+ rpm and freewheel sometime, getting avg of around 80 doesn't really represent your pedalling cadence you want to optimize.
Some bike computer can exclude zero from average cadence, but it still can not remove soft padelling out from average.

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 7948
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I have my computer set to ignore zero cadence readings in the average, but for sure there’s always a lot of “soft pedaling” that’s occurred on any given ride.
And for that reason, like you say, average cadence (at least for me) for the entire ride doesn’t mean squat. What I might take an interest in sometimes is average cadence over a particular section where I was actually being conscious of things, I.e., to determine my “zone” if you will where I’m comfortable pushing a good clip for an extended period of time, say in a group on the flats... and that always seems to hover right around the mid 80’s. Climbing is different again.
But for me it’s only out of interest. I’m not “training” purposely for anything. If people want to be riding according to their zone 2,3,4, or whatever, I just let them do their thing and stay behind as I don’t care how fast we go, but then they get mad at you for not pulling. Lol. So I pull, then they get made for going too fast or slow, which messes up their zones workout. That’s really only happened once a long time ago, with this tri chick. I never ever rode with her again. She didn’t belong in the CalZone, or vice versa.
[edit]: interesting conversation but now kind of off topic I suppose. My answer to the original post title is still “Never”.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

talltales
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

ome rodriguez wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 3:59 pm
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:48 pm
I find the AXS concept intriguing as I could definitely benefit from the wide range. However we all know there's no free lunch. On every gear-inch combo you are essentially running a smaller chainring and one gear higher on the cassette than on a 'normal' bike setup. So there's extra drivetrain friction on the AXS. For someone who has a FTP of 300w it might not matter much. But for the old and slow (me!) it's something that cannot be simply overlooked....every watt counts!
https://www.velonews.com/2019/05/bikes- ... ins_493185
A 3 W difference is a lot. Its about the same as adding 1 kg to the bike at 1000 m/h VAM. Then what good is it saving 150 g eliminating the front DR.

User avatar
Kjetil
Posts: 1824
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Hamar, Norway
Contact:

by Kjetil

Or to the body. Most of us in here shouldn’t care too much about their bike’s weight. Usually there’s fat to burn.
Bianchi-Campagnolo
The Specialissima

talltales
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

Kjetil wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:25 pm
Or to the body. Most of us in here shouldn’t care too much about their bike’s weight. Usually there’s fat to burn.
True. I was just pointing out, weight savings are easlily negated if they come with a efficiency penalty. As I said, to a fairly fast rider that can do 1000m per hour, loosing 3 W is equivalent to adding 1 kg to the bike. This goes for rolling resistance as well. If you have to choose, you are better off withtires that roll better than saving a few hundred grams.

yinzerniner
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 pm

by yinzerniner

SchallUndRauch wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:19 pm
So apparently, DT SWISS unfortunately offers XDR drivers (prerequisite for installing AXS) only for the straightpull-versions of its popular 240s and 350 hubs, but not the "classic" ones that use J-bend spokes :roll: Just guess which kind of spokes/hubs I used when building up my new aero carbon wheels...
https://d2a13k6araex7u.cloudfront.net/f ... Y_2019.pdf
So I asked DT Swiss Technical Support about this directly, and it appears that the initial compatibility chart is incorrect and/or misleading which is actually GOOD NEWS for those of us with DT Swiss CL wheelsets. :beerchug:

ME:
I was wondering out if you could answer a quick question.
I currently have a set of handbuilt custom wheels that use DT Swiss 240s centerlock hubs. They are traditional j-bend style spokes, NOT the straight pull version. I recently purchased a SRAM ETAP AXS groupset, and for it to work with the wheels the cassette requires an XDR freehub.
When trying to find the replacement part necessary I went to this site, and it appears that the XDR freehub body is only supported for the following hubs
180 Road db Center Lock (I assume this is for both j-bend and straight pull)
240s straightpull Road db Center Lock
350 straightpull Road db Center Lock
All three of the above use the same part number for the XDR driver, HWYAAX00S8888S
Since it appears that part works with both straightpull and j-bend disc hubs will the part also work with the 240s hubs that I currently have? Please let me know either way, and if not whether in the future there will be an XDR freehub that works with my DT 240s CL rear hub.
Thanks for your assistance.

DT Swiss Tech Support:
Your j-bend 240 takes the same free hub and end caps as the straight pull and 180, all ratchet drive hubs, etc…
Choose for 142mm thru-axle or 135mm QR with the below kits.

ROTOR KIT AXDR 130 QR B BB_L
HWYABX00S8883S
ratchet QR

ROTOR KIT AXDR 142/12 B BB_S
HWYAAX00S8888S
ratchet 142

DAVID XXXX
TECH SERVICES & WARRANTY MANAGER

I'll be ordering a DT Swiss freehub very soon just to verify. Already got the XDR freehub for my Reynolds ATR X Wheels installed and ready to go.


talltales
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:43 pm

by talltales

Did anyone measure the "slightly" larger roller diameter of the new chain. I measured some 1 and 10 speed chains I had and they are not even the same. Im betting the difference between this 12s chain and a typical 11s is in reality insignificant.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2671
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Kjetil wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:25 pm
Or to the body. Most of us in here shouldn’t care too much about their bike’s weight. Usually there’s fat to burn.
But still, if you ride a truely light bike under 6 Kgs and compare it to a bike around 8 Kgs, you will feel the difference.
No matter if you're 65 or 85 Kgs. If you talk efficency, that is another matter....

But i don't contradict your wisdom of less fat.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


SchallUndRauch
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:58 pm
Location: far, far away

by SchallUndRauch

yinzerniner wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:08 pm
SchallUndRauch wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:19 pm
So apparently, DT SWISS unfortunately offers XDR drivers (prerequisite for installing AXS) only for the straightpull-versions of its popular 240s and 350 hubs, but not the "classic" ones that use J-bend spokes :roll: Just guess which kind of spokes/hubs I used when building up my new aero carbon wheels...
https://d2a13k6araex7u.cloudfront.net/f ... Y_2019.pdf
So I asked DT Swiss Technical Support about this directly, and it appears that the initial compatibility chart is incorrect and/or misleading which is actually GOOD NEWS for those of us with DT Swiss CL wheelsets. :beerchug:

ME:
I was wondering out if you could answer a quick question.
I currently have a set of handbuilt custom wheels that use DT Swiss 240s centerlock hubs. They are traditional j-bend style spokes, NOT the straight pull version. I recently purchased a SRAM ETAP AXS groupset, and for it to work with the wheels the cassette requires an XDR freehub.
When trying to find the replacement part necessary I went to this site, and it appears that the XDR freehub body is only supported for the following hubs
180 Road db Center Lock (I assume this is for both j-bend and straight pull)
240s straightpull Road db Center Lock
350 straightpull Road db Center Lock
All three of the above use the same part number for the XDR driver, HWYAAX00S8888S
Since it appears that part works with both straightpull and j-bend disc hubs will the part also work with the 240s hubs that I currently have? Please let me know either way, and if not whether in the future there will be an XDR freehub that works with my DT 240s CL rear hub.
Thanks for your assistance.

DT Swiss Tech Support:
Your j-bend 240 takes the same free hub and end caps as the straight pull and 180, all ratchet drive hubs, etc…
Choose for 142mm thru-axle or 135mm QR with the below kits.

ROTOR KIT AXDR 130 QR B BB_L
HWYABX00S8883S
ratchet QR

ROTOR KIT AXDR 142/12 B BB_S
HWYAAX00S8888S
ratchet 142

DAVID XXXX
TECH SERVICES & WARRANTY MANAGER

I'll be ordering a DT Swiss freehub very soon just to verify. Already got the XDR freehub for my Reynolds ATR X Wheels installed and ready to go.
Now that's interesting. WHEN did you get that info? I had asked them, too, and got the following on 08 April 19:

"Hallo Herr

es ist auf jeden Fall geplant, auch die Road Classic Naben zukünftig XDR-kompatibel zu machen. Ob es hierzu ausreicht ein neues Rotor-Kit anzubieten, welches auch auf bisherige Naben passt, oder ob ein neues Nabengehäuse entwickelt werden muss, lässt sich zum jetzigen Zeitpunkt jedoch noch nicht sagen.


Freundliche Grüsse / Best regards

Agent Service
DT Swiss Deutschland GmbH
Tel: 02522

mailto:service.de@dtswiss.com
http://www.dtswiss.com"

The gist of it: Road Classic hubs (J-Bend) and XDR - maybe in the future.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post