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Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:02 pm
by ToughInTheStreets
Wow. Thanks for all of the responses. Definitely expected to get roasted right away (which would have been fine).

There are some interesting bike changes that you all have had in either direction.
thorerik wrote: I have gone from Canyon endurace sl disc back to allez sprint rim brake. I really like it, but as someone mentioned it is the tires that affects the comfor the most.
I think you will be hayypy with your choice if u go the allez sprint route
Interesting change there for sure. If you don't mind me asking, what lead you back from the Canyon? Seems like the same situation I find myself contemplating.
northwestern wrote: How about just swapping out carbon handlebars for alu ones? Shimano make alu aero bars. I have 42 and they're 235 grams. Not too much of a penalty but 10 times more comfortable.
I'm not quite sure what that would accomplish :) . I find the carbon bars to be more comfortable than my alloy sets. Again, might be all in my head.
Greenduck wrote:
I don't have any experience going from high-end carbon to aluminium but I have the other way around as many others.

I bought a Cannondale CAAD 9 some years ago. Everyone else bought carbon so obviously I wanted that too. I then bought a Cannondale SuperSix, sold my CAAD 9 and instantly regretted it. The SuperSix was a great bike but there was just something about the CAAD 9 I didn't realize before it was gone. And I can only imagine that newer aluminium frames has gotten even better.
See, that's the kind of stuff that you don't read or hear from many people, especially on bike reviews. Any idea on why you feel that way going from the CAAD 9 to the SSix? I bought a SSix HM a few years ago, but the shop dropped something on it and wrecked the frame. Decided to look elsewhere. I felt bad for the shop though, they had to eat the cost.
AJS914 wrote:
ToughInTheStreets wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:26 pm
Am I crazy? I have plenty of experience on both materials and truly enjoy my Focus as it is now, but as it seems, the new bike itch is back.

I do think you are crazy. You have a nice 2017 top tier bike. It doesn't make sense to step down to aluminum to get a new bike just because you want new.
Fair enough. Thanks for playing the sensible card. I really like the Focus, they're not very common in my area which is a bit of a plus IMO. I have several friends that ended up on the new Allez sprints and have taken them out quite a bit. They're two completely different animals in a way. The aero-ish tubing and seatpost may be completely marginal at best, but they definitely feel stiff and power transfer felt very direct. Maybe best thing is like others have said and build it up and keep the Focus as well :-|

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:02 pm
by Weenie

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:39 pm
by 3Pio
I had today 116 km done on CAAD12 which i built just few weeks ago, and this was the second outdoor ride since as i mention winter here...

Today pace was on fast side, and in 116km around 1000 meters climb..

I did not notice any harshness, but this road was not too bad, so still need to ride on some potholed road to see if there will be some harhsness after few hours of riding... Also considering that Alloy is more harsh then carbon, in this build i used carbon handlebar (from my experience definetely more comfortable then alloy), also opted for SAVE carbon seatpost, which have some comfort added..

The tires i used are 4Season 25mm with Latex Inner tubes, on Shamal 15C wheelset (mentionion this since tires and wheels are not on comfort side)

To be honest, i was positive suprised since no harhsness at all, and even smooth....Regarding stifness and response of frame, i can say i like it.. Very responsive and stiff enough, and i beat some PR's today, even od few segments im in first 10 overall (4th on one segment). (And still winter, using 4Season tires which have poor rolling resistance, also my position is not 100% dialed in.. I feel short in the front).. So cant say that this is slower bike...

Weight: This frameset is lighter 60 gm vs Colnago C60, also fork is 10gm lighter.

Another thing, since this is not very fancy frame, i did not went with expensive and fancy accesories, and for example bottle cages i ordered from AliExpress Carbon version for 18 EUR, and they are 18 gm per cage.. So cheaper at least 4 times vs Colnago cages i have on C60, also 30 gm lighter.. (My point is when u build something like this, than u think more about function, then must fancyness :) , also wanted to experiment with cheaper options regarding this kind of things, but to not lack function in same time or quality of use...)

Is Colnago C60 better bike then Alloy CAAD12? YES it is (more sofisticated, i really like how look like, how ride....)

Is it C60 better then CAAD12 4-5 times (it's more expensive 4-5 times).. I dont think so... U can race, ride long distances and just enjoy the ride in less worry way with CAAD12.. Dont feel that is lacking in any way... (BTW, i have another Carbon bike, Pinarello FP3 which now is ridden by my gf, but i was also my winter/trainer bike, and CAAD12 is more responsive then FP3 and more fun bike in any way)

But again seem that Definetely best if u can keep ur carbon bike as well, and build Alloy only if u really ride and have at least 10000 km in year (so that way u can at least say ur self u are not buying just because of consumerism, but to actually use and enjoy. It's easier to sleep this way :) when u spend money on N+1 bike, and u'll have rational enough excuse :) ) Also using cheaper Alloy bike (without loosing fun in same time), u safe expensive wear/tear from ur fancy bike, so after few years of riding this cheaper alloy bike will pay it self :) (this part is just to help u to do it somethig which both know u will do soon : ) )

But to have final conclusion, I'll have to do more km's, and also have days when i'll switch between both my bikes during the week, so will repost my experience after some period and at least 1000-2000 km on my alloy bike...

Did i regret building this alloy frame coming from carbon? Definetely NO..I know ill have ton of fun with this bike..

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:19 pm
by Sock3t
ToughInTheStreets wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:26 pm
Does anyone have any experience switching from high end carbon road bikes to an aluminum frame road bike? I have a Focus Izalco Max Disc and have been tossing the idea around to pick up an Allez Sprint Disc frameset.

Am I crazy? I have plenty of experience on both materials and truly enjoy my Focus as it is now, but as it seems, the new bike itch is back.

Current specs if that is relevant:
2017 Focus Izalco Max Disc
SRAM Red eTap
Fizik Cyrano 00 Handlebar
Fizik Cyrano 00 Seatpost
Fizik R1 Stem

More than likely, all parts would be swapped over to the new frameset except the seat post of course. I guess I would classify my riding style as hard and fast paced. Lots of solo intervals and sprints, weekend A group, occasional crit.

I crashed last year and handlebar strike on the top tube left a bit of a disconcerting mark and really bummed me out. i know this can happen to aluminum as well, but I have crashed tons in the past on my aluminum framed bikes with nothing more than a few scuffs to the paint.

So, if I'm not alone on this venture, I'd love to hear from others that have switched. Good or bad.

I did it. Went from a Specialized Roubaix to an Allez Sprint rim brake.

It's a lot to handle at first. You learn quick if your fit sucks and if your bibs suck.

It's fast, it's super super super rigid. It's a lot of fun to ride. I've done centuries and not worried much.

It corners HARD.

Wheels helped a ton, I'm using a custom build by fairwheel and they have smoothed out the ride.

I'm planning on tubeless, as a mate of mine went that route and said it's really, really good on the Sprint.

CF handlebars are soon as well, hopeing that numbs it a little more.

I've never regretted it. My Roubaix was a great bike and it was decently light. My Sprint is lighter.

Image

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:50 pm
by dastott
Must admit I don’t personally like Specialized bikes aesthetically or as a brand but that looks great. Paint job looks really cool.

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:25 pm
by ToughInTheStreets
@3Pio, thank you very much for the feedback after your long ride today. Its crazy to ever be comparing a C60 to an aluminum anything, isn't it? It's also odd to realize that it is lighter than your carbon framed top of the line Colnago. As far as how much I ride, I am gone quite a bit and unable to ride sometimes, but squeaked in over 8k KM last year, which I feel is decent enough and getting my money's worth out of my bikes. In comparison, I drove less than 2k km last year haha. I really appreciate your input and truly didn't expect to hear this.

@Sock3t, damn. That's a sharp looking ride you put together :beerchug: . Always liked those Controltech carbon saddles as well. Do they flex enough to take out any harshness? Plan would be to toss on some 50 mm carbon wheels as well. Do you do any racing on it? Thanks for sharing

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:53 am
by reedplayer
get the allez, if you prefer it aesthetically (thats, what i believe to detect in your statements)-says somebody who is riding izalco max for the 6th season now (tried several other high end frames in between, always returned to the max, but this is purely individual!).
the weight difference is not so important, differences in ride feel come, as said, from wheels, saddle, geometry, etc, so (lets get a little emotional, not to say cheesy ;-) )my 5 cents, simply choose what your heart demands.
(and, regarding the geometry, i even think, the allez is the better crit bike. izalco max is great for the mountain area, but its no crit bike!)

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:32 am
by ToughInTheStreets
reedplayer wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:53 am
get the allez, if you prefer it aesthetically (thats, what i believe to detect in your statements)-says somebody who is riding izalco max for the 6th season now (tried several other high end frames in between, always returned to the max, but this is purely individual!).
the weight difference is not so important, differences in ride feel come, as said, from wheels, saddle, geometry, etc, so (lets get a little emotional, not to say cheesy ;-) )my 5 cents, simply choose what your heart demands.
(and, regarding the geometry, i even think, the allez is the better crit bike. izalco max is great for the mountain area, but its no crit bike!)
I get what you're saying. Of course I think it's a good looking bike (in my opinion). I probably wouldn't even consider it if it was ugly hahah (we're cyclists, thats how we think, right?). However, I think the Izalco is a gorgeous bike as well. Classic road bike look, sleek and stiff.

The plan would be to swap my components over, which pretty much leaves the main variable on ride "feel" being the different frames (and seat post). It may not be the best crit bike on paper, but it has served me fair enough in the past. That also brings up something that pissed me off. As a fellow izalco owner, have you ever had to source out a replacement RAT thru-axle? Nearly freaking impossible. I crashed out last year and somehow ruined my front one and stripped the inner threaded rod that the clamp screws onto. I searched everywhere and called every dealer I could across the country and emailed international dealers as well as Focus directly. No one could source one out, which seemed absurd and still does. Ended up finding a fork on ebay from a seller that was willing to sell the thru axle separately and hooked me up big time. Just food for thought, if you have them, keep them lubed and taken care of haha. Sorry for the off topic tangent.

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:20 am
by Sock3t
ToughInTheStreets wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:25 pm
@3Pio, thank you very much for the feedback after your long ride today. Its crazy to ever be comparing a C60 to an aluminum anything, isn't it? It's also odd to realize that it is lighter than your carbon framed top of the line Colnago. As far as how much I ride, I am gone quite a bit and unable to ride sometimes, but squeaked in over 8k KM last year, which I feel is decent enough and getting my money's worth out of my bikes. In comparison, I drove less than 2k km last year haha. I really appreciate your input and truly didn't expect to hear this.

@Sock3t, damn. That's a sharp looking ride you put together :beerchug: . Always liked those Controltech carbon saddles as well. Do they flex enough to take out any harshness? Plan would be to toss on some 50 mm carbon wheels as well. Do you do any racing on it? Thanks for sharing
I race Cat 5 on it. The saddle is a little flexible but not much. It's 7.2kg as it sits right now with DA 9000 on it.

It's a really fun bike to ride!

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:22 am
by 3Pio
Sock3t wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:20 am
ToughInTheStreets wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:25 pm
@3Pio, thank you very much for the feedback after your long ride today. Its crazy to ever be comparing a C60 to an aluminum anything, isn't it? It's also odd to realize that it is lighter than your carbon framed top of the line Colnago. As far as how much I ride, I am gone quite a bit and unable to ride sometimes, but squeaked in over 8k KM last year, which I feel is decent enough and getting my money's worth out of my bikes. In comparison, I drove less than 2k km last year haha. I really appreciate your input and truly didn't expect to hear this.

@Sock3t, damn. That's a sharp looking ride you put together :beerchug: . Always liked those Controltech carbon saddles as well. Do they flex enough to take out any harshness? Plan would be to toss on some 50 mm carbon wheels as well. Do you do any racing on it? Thanks for sharing
I race Cat 5 on it. The saddle is a little flexible but not much. It's 7.2kg as it sits right now with DA 9000 on it.

It's a really fun bike to ride!
My Caad12 is 6830 gm in lightest version (Bora 35 Tub/CorsaG+ tires/kalloy uno 110mm stem), but consider 6950 gm, since this is with Look Keo Ti pedals, and i ride Favero Assioma Power Meters which add 100 gm. 20-30 gm extra, for different stem, since im still experimenting with this..

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=154473&hilit=caad12 ... 0#p1457147

In heaviest version is 7150 gm:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=154473&hilit=caad12 ... 5#p1454102

I also considered Steel frameset, but give up after realizing that will be flexy and heavy (Considered Ritchey Road Logic and Colnago Master X-Light).. So to be metal + stiff+light+not uber expensive = Alloy :)

BTW, i have another alloy frameset/carbon fork for my commuting.. It's Bianchi Pista SeiGiorni (here i have alloy Cinelli Lola Handlebar), and realized on this frame that it's not harsh, and also very fun for my city riding (it can be fast and very nice acceleration)

Even i prefer clasic look framesets, That Allez look very good..

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:53 am
by reedplayer
ToughInTheStreets wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:32 am
........ As a fellow izalco owner, have you ever had to source out a replacement RAT thru-axle? Nearly freaking impossible. ........
i must add: i have- , and always had, only rim brake versions, so no experience at all in this case.
regards,

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:51 pm
by angrylegs
@ToughInTheStreets Having two bikes is nice. You've got a nice carbon one. It would be worth it in the long run imho.

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:16 pm
by 3Pio
Today another 96 km, but this time not so good asphalt, and about 750 m climb, again let's say fast pace...

And again personal records, so seem that Alloy CAAD12 dont make me slower then Carbon C60 (also consider again im in winter clothes, accumulated tss from almost every day riding this week (344 km), tires with high rolling resistance...)

I really like how reactive/stiff is on climbs.. Also today impressed that i dont feel it as harsh bike (today on this road i have a chance to test that), but oposite (definetely not as smooth as C60, but not harsh and comfortable enough) and definetely a lot of fun...

Next week if weather is ok, i'll test it on 150-200 km ride...

Can i live just with alloy bike? Probably yes.. Would i keep both if possible? Definetely yes

Which one i'll pick to have if i need to choose just one? Colnago C60.. (who knows.. maybe this will change after some more riding of Caad12, since is really fun bike.. Press on pedals, so stiff and reactive..)

Is Colnago 4-5 times better then CAAD12 from perspective of pure riding? Definetely NO (i could not say that is better, just different taste/character (again this from pure riding perspective). But still Colnago C60 have some emotion, wonderfull paint, smooter ride and make me want to just stare at the bike, not just to ride.. I would say They both complement each other perfectly....

If u can keep ur Focus and buy Alez Sprint in same time, best thing from both worlds.. Or maybe best idea, to build Alezz Sprint, ride it for a while.. And if u find out that satisfy ur needs, sell Focus after that..

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:53 am
by ToughInTheStreets
angrylegs wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:51 pm
@ToughInTheStreets Having two bikes is nice. You've got a nice carbon one. It would be worth it in the long run imho.
Totally agree with you. Bad news is that I already have 5 bikes plus my wife's for a total of 6 as well as 4 motorcycles. I may have a problem with two wheels. Funny thing is, I drive a 35 year old Toyota pickup that everyone makes fun of me for still driving.

However, you and several others have made great points here and I propose this solution for scrutiny:

- I buy the allez sprint disc frame, swap over my etap, crankset, power meter, and brakes from the Focus.
- source out a crank arm power meter and build the Focus back up with DA 9000 that I have set aside. The cranks are 175, instead of my preferred 172.5, but any noticeable difference would probably be all in my head. I would also have to get new wheels. 👎
- Reluctantly sell two bike from my stable to make things right in the universe

This could be done with minimal effort and sacrifice. I put down a lot of hard miles this weekend on the Focus and it really is a great bike that I enjoy riding quite a bit and would probably regret selling right now.

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:03 am
by 3Pio
ToughInTheStreets wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:53 am
angrylegs wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:51 pm
@ToughInTheStreets Having two bikes is nice. You've got a nice carbon one. It would be worth it in the long run imho.
Totally agree with you. Bad news is that I already have 5 bikes plus my wife's for a total of 6 as well as 4 motorcycles. I may have a problem with two wheels. Funny thing is, I drive a 35 year old Toyota pickup that everyone makes fun of me for still driving.


To me u look on right path... :) I have 2 Road Bikes + 1 (which my gf use, but maybe will sell and get new one for her, which will better suit her (less agressive geometry), 1 Fixie Pista bike (for city commuting), 1 MTB (which i dont use too often now, but not worth selling since is good Epic marathon Carbon from 2008, but still lovely) + Gf MTB....

In 2013 i owned two cars (Brand new Honda CR-V + Citroen C3).. Sold the Honda CR-V (and converted in bikes :) ), gave Citroen to my gf.. So after 2015 dont own a car (ok, im using my gf's car when it's needed). Giving this car to her was good decision, since in same time i got personal driver if it's needed :) (joking)

About mileage in 2018... Max 2000-3000 km using a car, 12000 km on my road bike + about 3000 km city commuting ( and i was in plaster cast for a month + another off the bike...)

So as i said, u are on right path... :)

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:03 am
by Weenie

Re: Switching from carbon to aluminum - thoughts and opinions welcome

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:10 am
by ToffieBoi
3Pio wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:22 am
Sock3t wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:20 am
ToughInTheStreets wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:25 pm
@3Pio, thank you very much for the feedback after your long ride today. Its crazy to ever be comparing a C60 to an aluminum anything, isn't it? It's also odd to realize that it is lighter than your carbon framed top of the line Colnago. As far as how much I ride, I am gone quite a bit and unable to ride sometimes, but squeaked in over 8k KM last year, which I feel is decent enough and getting my money's worth out of my bikes. In comparison, I drove less than 2k km last year haha. I really appreciate your input and truly didn't expect to hear this.

@Sock3t, damn. That's a sharp looking ride you put together :beerchug: . Always liked those Controltech carbon saddles as well. Do they flex enough to take out any harshness? Plan would be to toss on some 50 mm carbon wheels as well. Do you do any racing on it? Thanks for sharing
I race Cat 5 on it. The saddle is a little flexible but not much. It's 7.2kg as it sits right now with DA 9000 on it.

It's a really fun bike to ride!
My Caad12 is 6830 gm in lightest version (Bora 35 Tub/CorsaG+ tires/kalloy uno 110mm stem), but consider 6950 gm, since this is with Look Keo Ti pedals, and i ride Favero Assioma Power Meters which add 100 gm. 20-30 gm extra, for different stem, since im still experimenting with this..

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=154473&hilit=caad12 ... 0#p1457147

In heaviest version is 7150 gm:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=154473&hilit=caad12 ... 5#p1454102

I also considered Steel frameset, but give up after realizing that will be flexy and heavy (Considered Ritchey Road Logic and Colnago Master X-Light).. So to be metal + stiff+light+not uber expensive = Alloy :)

BTW, i have another alloy frameset/carbon fork for my commuting.. It's Bianchi Pista SeiGiorni (here i have alloy Cinelli Lola Handlebar), and realized on this frame that it's not harsh, and also very fun for my city riding (it can be fast and very nice acceleration)

Even i prefer clasic look framesets, That Allez look very good..
I also think that steel frame will fit you better. There are many builders and brands out there with modern steel bikes. Cinelli Nemo TIG has massive tubes, so does Stelbel SB/03. They don't ride any different than a modern aluminum frame + ride quality is phenomenal!

edit: by you, I mean ToughInTheStreets :)