R5 - Ultimate SL - Tarmac

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
zappafile123
Posts: 424
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

packetloss wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:05 pm

There is more to it than just weight. I had a Venge, and have both an SL5 and SL6 s-works Tarmacs and absolutely hated the Venge on any terrain other than flat. On flat terrain it really flew. On climbs, it felt like it was stuck in tar compared to the Tarmac. As far as fact 10, fact 11, fact 12, other than the slight weight differences, you would not notice any difference. I've ridden a pro Tarmac frameset extensively as well as the S-works and I can't tell the difference.
Yeah... when I worked for a Spesh dealer, a few of the senior staff memebers who had owned both said they couldnt tell the difference between FaCT10 and Sworks frames (this was in the SL5 era). I would still expect there to actually be a difference and that they just werent paying attention (haha... cough cough)
Enigma Elite HSS| Spesh Tarmac SL6|Colnago C60|De Rosa Protos|Bianchi Oltre XR4&XR2|BMC SLR01 16|Cannondale Evo HM 12|Focus Izalco Max| Ridley Helium SL|Basso Diamante 15|Scapin Dyseys S8|Time ZXRS|Giant TCR SL 12| Ridley Noah 08|Look 585|Cervelo SLC

by Weenie


robeambro
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

packetloss wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:05 pm
Stueys wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:29 pm
sparklywheels wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:08 pm
robeambro wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:42 pm
Argh. Today I've seen a Tarmac Pro (or Expert, unsure) and it looked quite nice in glossy paint.
Thing is, the frame shape looked very sexy, maybe nearly on par with a Venge, but not sure I like any of the available colourways for disc! If only I could have the disc frameset in the white/black/red colourway (the one mostly white with black seat tube and red details), my life would be much simpler!

I think that, after seeing it, it seems much more modern than the Ultimate. So it might be down to a textbook classic: Tarmac vs Venge. Hopefully I'll get to see them in March at this big bike expo. I want to see the Gloss Chameleon Flake Tarmac colourway in person.

I'm still fighting with the idea of having a Venge as an allrounder. Whenever I read forums, people who have both an aero and a traditional frame, don't seem to love how their aero bikes climb. They also don't seem to appreciate the stiffness too much while going uphill.
On the other hand, people who only have an aero bike, say that it climbs beautifully.

Aaaargh. So much indecision.
I used to ride a 6.8kg R5 and my new ride is an 8kg aero bike. They both climb, and any lack of speed is the rider’s fault. Laurent Fignon was faster up the Alpe DHuez on a 10+kg steel bike than pretty much any current pro on any bike.
This, a Venge is giving away some 300g to a tarmac. At that point how it climbs isn't going to be impacted by the extra weight, you aren't talking 2 to 3kg here. It might be impacted by how it puts power down (stiffness, chainstay length, etc) but not the weight. And every review I've read say that the Venge puts power down like nothing else. I think the only reason to maybe err towards a Tarmac would be compliance (i.e comfort). And that's easily addresed with tyres and tyre pressures if you've got an all-day outing coming up.
There is more to it than just weight. I had a Venge, and have both an SL5 and SL6 s-works Tarmacs and absolutely hated the Venge on any terrain other than flat. On flat terrain it really flew. On climbs, it felt like it was stuck in tar compared to the Tarmac. As far as fact 10, fact 11, fact 12, other than the slight weight differences, you would not notice any difference. I've ridden a pro Tarmac frameset extensively as well as the S-works and I can't tell the difference.
To be fully honest, I think that the differences are there, but are very very subtle - and needless to say, they don't affect performance almost at all. Some people may notice them, some may not (I probably wouldn't). Possibly, higher end frames would be slightly stiffer, and hence preferable, for sprinting or out-of-saddle action.

But hey, some people find pleasure in owning something that is the most technologically advanced for a brand at a specific point in time. For me this applies to some extent, in a sense that I went for the S-Works frameset, but I was sensible with the groupset, choosing Ultegra Di2, and with wheels, choosing some Farsports.

packetloss
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:29 pm

by packetloss

zappafile123 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:39 am
packetloss wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:05 pm

There is more to it than just weight. I had a Venge, and have both an SL5 and SL6 s-works Tarmacs and absolutely hated the Venge on any terrain other than flat. On flat terrain it really flew. On climbs, it felt like it was stuck in tar compared to the Tarmac. As far as fact 10, fact 11, fact 12, other than the slight weight differences, you would not notice any difference. I've ridden a pro Tarmac frameset extensively as well as the S-works and I can't tell the difference.
Yeah... when I worked for a Spesh dealer, a few of the senior staff memebers who had owned both said they couldnt tell the difference between FaCT10 and Sworks frames (this was in the SL5 era). I would still expect there to actually be a difference and that they just werent paying attention (haha... cough cough)
Well I suppose there is a slight weight difference (100g tops). Depending on what pain job you get, that can easilly be wiped out.

Quite honestly, I can't tell the difference between Fact10, Fact11 or Fact12. My SL5 is Fact 11 and the SL6 is Fact12. They might as well call it BS1 BS2 and MoreBS. Or better yet FACT$, FACT$$ and FACT$$$$

xylar
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:36 pm

by xylar

robeambro wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:07 am
bruno2000 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:40 am
What was the final decision here?
I got an SL6 :) It’s not been delivered yet though.
I know that everybody said to get the Venge, and I love how it looks, but ultimately I wanted to play safe.
How are you finding it? I'm trying to decide between SL6 Expert and Ultimate CF SL Disc at the moment :mrgreen:

robeambro
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

xylar wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:37 am
robeambro wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:07 am
bruno2000 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:40 am
What was the final decision here?
I got an SL6 :) It’s not been delivered yet though.
I know that everybody said to get the Venge, and I love how it looks, but ultimately I wanted to play safe.
How are you finding it? I'm trying to decide between SL6 Expert and Ultimate CF SL Disc at the moment :mrgreen:
I have no complaints whatsoever. It handles beautifully, and is pretty comfy (although my bum isn’t sure about the Power Saddle). I also love my Aerofly handlebars, so comfy and cool looking.

Of course, the precision in handling and the stability can be due to a multitude of factors (nice tubeless tyres, thru axles, etc) so I’d be delusional to think it’s only the frame. But I can say for sure that not once I felt the bike was not stiff enough or handled in a slow or unpredictable way.

I can’t tell you which is better between the two frames, they’re probably quite similar in nature - but as I said above, be assured that most of the feelings will depend on the remainder of the build, mostly saddle, wheels, tyres and even handlebar.

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