R5 - Ultimate SL - Tarmac

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
zappafile123
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:24 am

by zappafile123

Fudge the Venge - disc and di2 only!? Terrible! Mechanical is better than Di2 (cause feel), Rim is better than disc (cause serviceability). Apart from that deal breaker (for me) I'm sure its an awesome frame.
Enigma Elite HSS| Spesh Tarmac SL6|Colnago C60|De Rosa Protos|Bianchi Oltre XR4&XR2|BMC SLR01 16|Cannondale Evo HM 12|Focus Izalco Max| Ridley Helium SL|Basso Diamante 15|Scapin Dyseys S8|Time ZXRS|Giant TCR SL 12| Ridley Noah 08|Look 585|Cervelo SLC

by Weenie


robeambro
Posts: 612
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Argh. Today I've seen a Tarmac Pro (or Expert, unsure) and it looked quite nice in glossy paint.
Thing is, the frame shape looked very sexy, maybe nearly on par with a Venge, but not sure I like any of the available colourways for disc! If only I could have the disc frameset in the white/black/red colourway (the one mostly white with black seat tube and red details), my life would be much simpler!

I think that, after seeing it, it seems much more modern than the Ultimate. So it might be down to a textbook classic: Tarmac vs Venge. Hopefully I'll get to see them in March at this big bike expo. I want to see the Gloss Chameleon Flake Tarmac colourway in person.

I'm still fighting with the idea of having a Venge as an allrounder. Whenever I read forums, people who have both an aero and a traditional frame, don't seem to love how their aero bikes climb. They also don't seem to appreciate the stiffness too much while going uphill.
On the other hand, people who only have an aero bike, say that it climbs beautifully.

Aaaargh. So much indecision.

sparklywheels
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:12 pm

by sparklywheels

robeambro wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:42 pm
Argh. Today I've seen a Tarmac Pro (or Expert, unsure) and it looked quite nice in glossy paint.
Thing is, the frame shape looked very sexy, maybe nearly on par with a Venge, but not sure I like any of the available colourways for disc! If only I could have the disc frameset in the white/black/red colourway (the one mostly white with black seat tube and red details), my life would be much simpler!

I think that, after seeing it, it seems much more modern than the Ultimate. So it might be down to a textbook classic: Tarmac vs Venge. Hopefully I'll get to see them in March at this big bike expo. I want to see the Gloss Chameleon Flake Tarmac colourway in person.

I'm still fighting with the idea of having a Venge as an allrounder. Whenever I read forums, people who have both an aero and a traditional frame, don't seem to love how their aero bikes climb. They also don't seem to appreciate the stiffness too much while going uphill.
On the other hand, people who only have an aero bike, say that it climbs beautifully.

Aaaargh. So much indecision.
I used to ride a 6.8kg R5 and my new ride is an 8kg aero bike. They both climb, and any lack of speed is the rider’s fault. Laurent Fignon was faster up the Alpe DHuez on a 10+kg steel bike than pretty much any current pro on any bike.

Stueys
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:12 pm

by Stueys

sparklywheels wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:08 pm
robeambro wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:42 pm
Argh. Today I've seen a Tarmac Pro (or Expert, unsure) and it looked quite nice in glossy paint.
Thing is, the frame shape looked very sexy, maybe nearly on par with a Venge, but not sure I like any of the available colourways for disc! If only I could have the disc frameset in the white/black/red colourway (the one mostly white with black seat tube and red details), my life would be much simpler!

I think that, after seeing it, it seems much more modern than the Ultimate. So it might be down to a textbook classic: Tarmac vs Venge. Hopefully I'll get to see them in March at this big bike expo. I want to see the Gloss Chameleon Flake Tarmac colourway in person.

I'm still fighting with the idea of having a Venge as an allrounder. Whenever I read forums, people who have both an aero and a traditional frame, don't seem to love how their aero bikes climb. They also don't seem to appreciate the stiffness too much while going uphill.
On the other hand, people who only have an aero bike, say that it climbs beautifully.

Aaaargh. So much indecision.
I used to ride a 6.8kg R5 and my new ride is an 8kg aero bike. They both climb, and any lack of speed is the rider’s fault. Laurent Fignon was faster up the Alpe DHuez on a 10+kg steel bike than pretty much any current pro on any bike.
This, a Venge is giving away some 300g to a tarmac. At that point how it climbs isn't going to be impacted by the extra weight, you aren't talking 2 to 3kg here. It might be impacted by how it puts power down (stiffness, chainstay length, etc) but not the weight. And every review I've read say that the Venge puts power down like nothing else. I think the only reason to maybe err towards a Tarmac would be compliance (i.e comfort). And that's easily addresed with tyres and tyre pressures if you've got an all-day outing coming up.

robeambro
Posts: 612
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Yep guys never mentioned weight as a factor :)
I’m only worried about how nice could it possibly be to go for say a 5-6+ hour ride on hills and mountains

ichobi
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

robeambro wrote: You guys are evil! :roll:

I'll see both in March, there's a big bike fair in the Netherlands. Hopefully I'll also be able to sit on both for a few minutes. And possibly an Ultimate as well.
What fair is this? I just moved to Amsterdam for a master degree. Would be interested to go!


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robeambro
Posts: 612
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

ichobi wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:16 am
robeambro wrote: You guys are evil! :roll:

I'll see both in March, there's a big bike fair in the Netherlands. Hopefully I'll also be able to sit on both for a few minutes. And possibly an Ultimate as well.
What fair is this? I just moved to Amsterdam for a master degree. Would be interested to go!


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Bike Motion in Utrecht ! Feel free to ping me in private if you want company haha

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bruno2000
Posts: 876
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

by bruno2000

What was the final decision here?

robeambro
Posts: 612
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

bruno2000 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:40 am
What was the final decision here?
I got an SL6 :) It’s not been delivered yet though.
I know that everybody said to get the Venge, and I love how it looks, but ultimately I wanted to play safe.

bruno2000
Posts: 876
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:11 pm

by bruno2000

Good luck.

gurk700
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:40 pm

by gurk700

Owned older Cervelo R5 Rim. Rode newer Cervelo R5 Disc as a good friend owns one. Own an SL6 Ultralight Rim Brake now.

Prefer Tarmac & current Cervelo. Preference comes down to pure aesthetics.

I promise you won't notice Aero differences. Also unless you buy a bike and ride it without fiddling with fit, you can get both bikes to fit you the same. Stick same tires and rims to both and you won't notice much difference in comfort either. They are both great.

I LOVE my 2015 R5 as well. The only downside is that it's a bit too twitchy. I feel much more confident and can descend pretty fast on more stable bikes. Same for moto racing. I've always felt more confident (which led to more entry and corner speed) in longer / lower bikes (not a huge difference ofcourse, we're talking millimeters. You don't wanna sacrifice fast handling. Less of an issue in feather weights bicycles vs a huge chunk of motorcycle)

Test ride them if you can. I promise you you'll be happy with something you like the look of best.

Also, please ignore the creaking comments. Stick a quality pair of bearings or a quality bottom bracket depending on what frame you get and be done with creaks. Last time I heard a BB creak was 4 years ago when I first got into bicycles. Get good BB's, learn to install them correctly yourself and ignore BB creak comments.

velov
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:09 am

by velov

Close your eyes...picture all the bikes lined up...which one do you reach for? Get that one.
Don't like the paint scheme that one comes in? Get it painted.
At the pointy end of bikes the differences are marginal at best. Once you start riding the bike you really crave, you'll end up dismissing the shortfalls anyway.
For me, it's always that simple. Reviews and tech details usually keep me interested in the bike for a couple of months, after that I always end up riding the ones I have a deeper connection with.

Edit: Didn't see that you made a decision...statement still holds true though. Enjoy your ride! :thumbup:

wfcarrot
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:46 pm
Location: New York, US

by wfcarrot

Have them both, only one thing want to remind. The tarmac SL6 needs an adapter for EE brake on small size frame(less than 54), which is a concern if you really care about weight and have to use the small frame.
2018 Sworks Tarmac SL6 - 7.2kg
2017 Colnago C60 - 6.29kg

packetloss
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:29 pm

by packetloss

Stueys wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:29 pm
sparklywheels wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:08 pm
robeambro wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:42 pm
Argh. Today I've seen a Tarmac Pro (or Expert, unsure) and it looked quite nice in glossy paint.
Thing is, the frame shape looked very sexy, maybe nearly on par with a Venge, but not sure I like any of the available colourways for disc! If only I could have the disc frameset in the white/black/red colourway (the one mostly white with black seat tube and red details), my life would be much simpler!

I think that, after seeing it, it seems much more modern than the Ultimate. So it might be down to a textbook classic: Tarmac vs Venge. Hopefully I'll get to see them in March at this big bike expo. I want to see the Gloss Chameleon Flake Tarmac colourway in person.

I'm still fighting with the idea of having a Venge as an allrounder. Whenever I read forums, people who have both an aero and a traditional frame, don't seem to love how their aero bikes climb. They also don't seem to appreciate the stiffness too much while going uphill.
On the other hand, people who only have an aero bike, say that it climbs beautifully.

Aaaargh. So much indecision.
I used to ride a 6.8kg R5 and my new ride is an 8kg aero bike. They both climb, and any lack of speed is the rider’s fault. Laurent Fignon was faster up the Alpe DHuez on a 10+kg steel bike than pretty much any current pro on any bike.
This, a Venge is giving away some 300g to a tarmac. At that point how it climbs isn't going to be impacted by the extra weight, you aren't talking 2 to 3kg here. It might be impacted by how it puts power down (stiffness, chainstay length, etc) but not the weight. And every review I've read say that the Venge puts power down like nothing else. I think the only reason to maybe err towards a Tarmac would be compliance (i.e comfort). And that's easily addresed with tyres and tyre pressures if you've got an all-day outing coming up.
There is more to it than just weight. I had a Venge, and have both an SL5 and SL6 s-works Tarmacs and absolutely hated the Venge on any terrain other than flat. On flat terrain it really flew. On climbs, it felt like it was stuck in tar compared to the Tarmac. As far as fact 10, fact 11, fact 12, other than the slight weight differences, you would not notice any difference. I've ridden a pro Tarmac frameset extensively as well as the S-works and I can't tell the difference.

by Weenie


ichobi
Posts: 953
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

Packetloss did you mean the new Venge or the old Venge vias?

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