Advice needed on Choosing a chinese carbon disc road frame...

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
DHT
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:00 pm
Location: Calgary, Alberta CAN
Contact:

by DHT

I have a Bianchi Allroad (ALU 105 Shimano hydraulic Disc) in Size 50... It weighs about 11kg.. I felt it was a bit cramped and changed the stem from 90 5o 120mm and it helped... It's the only drop bar handlebar I've ever ridden... I've also replaced the tires to 28mm sleeks from the original knobby 35mm. I don't like the extra gap showing at the fork... And because of the allroad nature, it has a 440 mm chainstay... and I find it a bit too slow... I do a lot of 80 - 100km rides in a week during the summer but I hardly ride the drops and keep my hands mostly on the hoods... I'm 60 years old and of average flexibility... I am 168cm tall and about 88kg w/ an inseam of 81cm... I have a lot of hills to deal with especially when I have to return home... there's a 1km switchback stretch with an average of 9% incline but some places as high as 35%. I have installed an 11-42T cassette in the back via a roadlink... works like a charm...

I am looking at reducing the weight of my bike by going to a carbon frame and carbon wheels... and rather than using an endurance frame (which are hard to find at a place like Dengfu) I am willing to go with a race type frame... The race/aero frame look would be strictly for aesthetics too as I am not a hugely fast rider nor a competitive one... But looks are important to me. My question is, will the race geometry like the R02, R06 or the FM0099 aero style be too difficult for me to handle and will I be able to ride such long rides with such a bike? Is it worth going through the expense to find out? I am planning to buy all new components Shimano R8020 and saving money on the frame is very appealing to me....

none
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:29 pm

by none

Seems like you know what you're looking for in your next ride already.
Just pick one that looks good to you and build it, that's the only way to find out for sure whether you like it or not.

by Weenie


joejack951
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

As long as you can fit 28mm tires you can expect very similar ride quality to your current bike. Tires play a massive part in the smoothness of a bike with the frame contributing very little, at least once you get away from ultra-high pressure 23mm tires. I have a HongFu FM079-F which can fit 28mm (or possibly 30mm even based on my measurements) but am currently using 25mm tubulars. They are super smooth compared to anything I have previously used. It has 410mm chainstays whereas my carbon commuter has 425mm chainstays. The handling is faster but honestly the main thing I notice going between the bikes geometry-wise is the higher bottom bracket on the commuter (built using a CX frame). The lower center of gravity makes the FM079-F feel quite stable even though the handling is quicker, granted the tubular tires likely play a part in that.

Personally, I'd advise staying away from the more aero-looking frames for a few reasons: they'll be heavier first and foremost, they'll be less likely to fit wider tires or at least ore limited than standard frames, and they'll likely include aero-features that cause more headaches than they are worth (hidden seat post clamps, convoluted hidden cable/housing/wiring paths, geometry designed around a more forward riding position, etc.).

Just my opinion, of course.

Obligatory bike pic of my FM079-F:

Image

wai2fast
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:04 am
Location: NYC!

by wai2fast

Check out the Synapse if/when you have a moment. Like yourself, I don't race anymore, but enjoy having a fast capable bike under me that looks the part. I have a 51cm with 28s (rim brakes) and it's perfect. It's fast when I want to go fast and plush when I'm just cruising and taking in the scenery. I got mine used a few years back. Built it up on a budget with non-weight weenie parts and still managed to get it under 15lbs/6.8kg.

alcatraz
Posts: 2057
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Used frame or a chinese frame, all ok.

Tip 1. Frame size is just a number/letter. If you want to mimic a certain geometry accurately then look at the geometry chart. If you aren't maximizing your comfort you are likely to lose out on lots of kilometers of valuable riding and training.

Tip 2. Do you have any needs? Long legs/long torso/bad back/bad knees? It will affect the size of your crank arms and frame size/geometry. If you choose a low frame (short head tube) and have back pain, you will likely regret it later. If you have short legs and pick a frame too small you will ride a ridiculous stem. Etc...

Tip 3. What do you think you'll be doing in 1-3 years? Will you be going faster or riding longer at a time? Match the frame to the intended future use = important.

Tip 4. Aero is 90% body position/frame geometry, 10% frame tube shape. If you want to go fast, focus on body, stiffness, aero. Not on manufacturer promises that this/that frame is x watts faster.

dereksmalls
Posts: 2195
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:20 pm
Location: New Zealand

by dereksmalls

I suggesting going through this thread as well from the end backwards - there might be stuff inthere that will help you - viewtopic.php?p=1457297#p1457297

Gutsyfungus
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:55 pm

by Gutsyfungus

joejack951 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:00 am
As long as you can fit 28mm tires you can expect very similar ride quality to your current bike. Tires play a massive part in the smoothness of a bike with the frame contributing very little, at least once you get away from ultra-high pressure 23mm tires. I have a HongFu FM079-F which can fit 28mm (or possibly 30mm even based on my measurements) but am currently using 25mm tubulars. They are super smooth compared to anything I have previously used. It has 410mm chainstays whereas my carbon commuter has 425mm chainstays. The handling is faster but honestly the main thing I notice going between the bikes geometry-wise is the higher bottom bracket on the commuter (built using a CX frame). The lower center of gravity makes the FM079-F feel quite stable even though the handling is quicker, granted the tubular tires likely play a part in that.

Personally, I'd advise staying away from the more aero-looking frames for a few reasons: they'll be heavier first and foremost, they'll be less likely to fit wider tires or at least ore limited than standard frames, and they'll likely include aero-features that cause more headaches than they are worth (hidden seat post clamps, convoluted hidden cable/housing/wiring paths, geometry designed around a more forward riding position, etc.).

Just my opinion, of course.

Obligatory bike pic of my FM079-F:

Image
And here i was looking to build a chorus carbon machine with tan walled tyres.... and here it is!!! Looking damned good! Id personally go with a red trim versus white but I REALLY like what you have done... might I rrquezt you share a lot more detail on the bike... all up weights etc etc wheel choice. Handlebar and stem choices....costs of the same too. They do say that immitation is the best form of flattery....

alcatraz
Posts: 2057
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I wonder what kind of cable actuated disc brake calipers work well with campy levers?

Is it worth going that route over sram/shimano hydro?

What about campy hydraulic? Does it cost too much?

none
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:29 pm

by none

Brakes, who needs them; they only slow you down.

joejack951
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

Gutsyfungus wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 3:23 pm
And here i was looking to build a chorus carbon machine with tan walled tyres.... and here it is!!! Looking damned good! Id personally go with a red trim versus white but I REALLY like what you have done... might I rrquezt you share a lot more detail on the bike... all up weights etc etc wheel choice. Handlebar and stem choices....costs of the same too. They do say that immitation is the best form of flattery....
Hey, thanks! I had been meaning to do a full build thread but I never got around to it. I have a thread over on Bikeforums but I'll copy and paste from it.

Build details:

frame/fork: Hongfu FM-079-F w/ BB30
rims: Hongfu 40mm carbon tubular, 25mm wide, no brake track
tires: Vittoria Corsa G+ Isotech tubular, 25mm with Mastik One, Continental valve extenders
Brakes: TRP HY/RD Flat Mount, custom arms for Campagnolo levers
Rotors: Shimano ICE tech Freeza 160 front, 140 rear
front hub: Bitex BX106F centerlock 24H, 15mm thru, white!
front thru axle: Rock Shox Maxle, 15x100 (125mm overall length)
rear hub: Bitex BX106R Centerlock 28H 12mm thru, Campy, white!
Rear thru axle: Ibis Hexle Boost 148, 12mm x 171mm overall
Rear axle nut: Shimano e-thru nut (milled down a bit for more thread engagement)
Spokes: Sapim CX-Ray, black
Nipples: Sapim 12mm
Groupset: Campy Chorus, 50/34 crank, 12/29 cassette
Cable housing: Yokozuna Reaction, white
Pedals: Shimano Ultegra 6800
Saddle: Fizik Arione R1, white
Seatpost: Ritchey Superlogic UD Carbon
Handlebars: Ritchey WCS Streem II, 40cm (paid $187 from Ribble)
Stem: Ritchey WCS C260 110mm (paid $63 from Merlin)
Bar Tape: Fizik Classic, white

Weight as pictured above: 16.65 lbs./7.57 kg
Wheelset weight with 40mm rims: 1465 grams (some day I'll finish building my Farsports 25mm deep tubulars that will weigh 1113 grams for the wheelset)

Bikeforums thread with plenty of additional info including how I made the TRP HY/RD brakes work with the Campy levers: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling ... build.html

joejack951
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

alcatraz wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:13 pm
I wonder what kind of cable actuated disc brake calipers work well with campy levers?

Is it worth going that route over sram/shimano hydro?

What about campy hydraulic? Does it cost too much?
Campy levers will work with:

Avid BB7 Road
Juin Tech R1 (or similar, I think they have some new stuff out since I last looked)
TRP HY/RD with modified arms

Mechanical vs. hydro is 100% up to the user. I hate the look of hydro levers and when I built my bike Campy hydro wasn't even an option. Using mechanical levers leaves me open to repurpose them on any road bike (including vintage frames) and they are cheaper. Weight is close enough. HY/RDs are heavy calipers but there are other pluses that negate that for me (self-adjusting pistons and lever feel). Given how many people have purchased my short pull HY/RD arms it seems I am not alone in the above thought process.

Gutsyfungus
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:55 pm

by Gutsyfungus

joejack951 wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:03 pm

Hey, thanks! I had been meaning to do a full build thread but I never got around to it. I have a thread over on Bikeforums but I'll copy and paste from it.
Thanks for the reply....appreciate that and have started looking at your build thread..

I'm 100% commited to the build... but I am still fairly early in the "thinking" piece of the process.
(I have another 3 weeks before I start thinking about placing an order.

I'm still not 100% decided on the frame:

The Workswell R-093 is coming up at the top of the list, so far, with the FM 088 a close second. I've got s reply from Hongfu regarding the FM-079-F too...
I want to weigh up all the ins and outs of each of the options first prior to moving forward. Hell I'm not sure I have all the questions formed in my head yet!

;)

I plan to finish the bike with a new Campagnolo Chorus Groupset and finish it off with some chinese sourced wheels and handlebars…
This will be my first bike I build using new components… My previous incarnations are built from unloved bits from Ebay, some old knicker elastic and an odd finishing item from Aliexpress.

The groupset question is a struggle as well. My other 2 bikes are all Campy. For better or worse, for richer or poorer; I'm stuck with Campy.
11 speed Chorus, new 12 speed Chorus... Again I am fumbling around with more questions than answers here.

Wheels, Bottom Brackert standards and Through axles are all areas I need to do some more research on before I am in a position to start asking any intelligent questions!


Gutsy_Fungus.

none
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:29 pm

by none

I've built four bikes with different eBay Chinese carbon sellers in the last 2-3 years.
Sold one of them because the wrong size frame was shipped to me and eBay refunded my purchase.
The other three bike builts were similar in experience.

1. Seatposts, or seatpost securing wedge in frame are difficult to minitor tightness to avoid seatpost slipping.

2. Front derailleur mount are also prone to slippage, tighten carefully so you don't over tighten and damage the frame.

3. Shifting cables are likely needed to be routed before the bottom bracket is mounted.

4. Spare frame parts, i.e. cable stop plates, rear derailleur hanger, seatpost wedge are difficult to source from seller.
Seems that they sell so many frames even the sellers are not sure the correct ones when sending them high definition picture of exact replacement you need.

Gutsyfungus
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:55 pm

by Gutsyfungus

none wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:41 am
I've built four bikes with different eBay Chinese carbon sellers in the last 2-3 years.
Sold one of them because the wrong size frame was shipped to me and eBay refunded my purchase.
The other three bike builts were similar in experience.

1. Seatposts, or seatpost securing wedge in frame are difficult to minitor tightness to avoid seatpost slipping.

2. Front derailleur mount are also prone to slippage, tighten carefully so you don't over tighten and damage the frame.

3. Shifting cables are likely needed to be routed before the bottom bracket is mounted.

4. Spare frame parts, i.e. cable stop plates, rear derailleur hanger, seatpost wedge are difficult to source from seller.
Seems that they sell so many frames even the sellers are not sure the correct ones when sending them high definition picture of exact replacement you need.
Some useful tips there.

I guess it might be an idea if I ask for spares in this respect when I orider the framset? especially relating to the hangar?

Correct torque loading of componentry has already crossed my mind...I am hoping the manufacturers provide these settings. In their absence.....typical loading should do...

Just in the process of choosing the frame size now....I think I am set on the FM088.

by Weenie


joejack951
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:50 pm
Location: Wilmington, DE

by joejack951

Hong Fu included a spare derailleur hanger with my frameset.

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