FELT F2 build aka: carbonpornspeedmachine

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
hannawald
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

Understand your point of view..i am sometimes also stuck whether to go light vs aero with wheels and what the right depth is. Currently on Bora One 35mm tubulars, but have second thoughts about tubeless and higher profile. Saying that i must say Boras are great rolling, especially uphill..and on flats they just keep rolling..they are just my first tubulars and that makes me uncertain of being able to fix punctures..i used to have tubeless so i know what to do with them..so browsing ebay but so far staying with Boras.
What deal did you get on Carbon Ti hubs?:)

RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

hannawald wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:20 pm
Understand your point of view..i am sometimes also stuck whether to go light vs aero with wheels and what the right depth is. Currently on Bora One 35mm tubulars, but have second thoughts about tubeless and higher profile. Saying that i must say Boras are great rolling, especially uphill..and on flats they just keep rolling..they are just my first tubulars and that makes me uncertain of being able to fix punctures..i used to have tubeless so i know what to do with them..so browsing ebay but so far staying with Boras.
What deal did you get on Carbon Ti hubs?:)
The x-hubs strike me as being comparable in price to 240s, but lighter, and easier to service for the rears. Maybe 450$ canadian for the pair? They seem like the best balance between light and durable. Or as fairwheel put it... they are the lightest hubs that still are durable enough for daily use.

I too had thought about tubular. I could have gone 56mm and kept weight identical to the mavics! (Ignoring tires and fluid) But my issue was that this was a daily rider. I did not want a tire change to stop me from riding for a week while i glue. Plus, clinchers are so good these days. The gp5000’s are incredible. I am still not mentally ready for the weight of tubeless, especially when latex tubes are just as quick for rolling resistance as tubless, but lighter and less fuss.

by Weenie


hannawald
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:28 pm
Location: Czech Republic

by hannawald

I have been riding disc brake road bikes for the last few years since i switched from mtb, so many things are new to me with my new rim brake Specialissima (I went weightweenie way).

I threw away latex tubes because i had no trust in them. After first installation i could see some marks and wrinkles on them. Some of them made bubles even after two pump strokes..i know you should not do this with latex tubes, pump them when they are not inside the rim, i just wanted to put there a bit of air to make the installation easier. Then i read that you should not put latex into rim brake clinchers and i have given up this option..
Tubeless tires can be quite light. Hutchinson fusion 5 11Storm Galactics are 220g (they are below their advertised weight) in 25mm. Schwalbe rim tape is 5g per tyre, 25g of sealant and 5g valve - around 30g lighter than tubular tires per wheel. Mavic says it is extremely difficult to make proper ust rim with precise tolerances, because heat from rim brakes may affect spoke tension etc, but people are riding that..Mavic wheels are said to have bad hubs, not rolling very well..there is a new hub coming on Cosmic Ultimate UST but those are very expensive wheels and hard to predict how they will be..
So I ended with tubulars as the safest option, but still hoping for something that is not a compromise:) with disc brakes you don't need to care about this but i wanted light bike..

RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

Interesting. I also heard mavic hubs are not always the best... but i hear that for most oem hubs, without much real data. Who knows. I think good maintenance is the key.

On latex tubes... i will be running them on carbon clinchers. On hills, no less.

The key is remembering that I am 130lbs, not a professional, i don’t drag brakes, and i am not living in a mountanous area. Brake fade is unheard of where i live.

Part of me wants tubulars. But my mental math was that i could get rolling resistance comparable to race day tubulars, but without the hassle, and with everyday durability. I figured the better rolling resistance/durability outweighs and gains from a lighter wheel. But the weight weenie in me did cry a bit...

RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I did some more wheel measurements with a digital caliper.

The wheels from velocarbon were cagy for details on measurements, and the vendor was not much help for details.

Here is what i got:
Internal width: claimed 18mm, actual 17.2mm
Exteral width: claimed 27 mm. Actual 25.2mm at outer end of brake track, 26.8mm at inner end of brake track, 27.8mm at widest point (mid rim).

Not bad, however my original measurements of 26mm at the outer brake tracks was more ideal for 25c gp5000’s. I now will go 23c front, 25c rear. I think aero will be key up front, and i will take the extra few watts of improved rolling resistance in the rear as aero matters less back there.

RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

More candy just arrived in the mail.

We have the carbon ti xhubs sl at 62g and 162g respective. Everything is a bit heavier than stated... presumably due to grease. They are very nice. The lbs was happy they came with full schematics, as it will make their job of measuring the required spike length much much easier.

The can creek aer headset is pretty nice also. The top shows even more of the carbon steerer where it is machined out. I may eventually go with their more flush 10mm high option. I will decide when i eventually cut the steerer tube and remove that top spacer. The aer headset top and bearing weight hardly more than the old fsa carbon headset alone. Visually, the aer unit looks taller however.

The bottom bearing is the right diameter externally and internally, but is taller, and does not fit flush. The fsa bearing on the bike has no apparent race/seal, but if i remove that from the aer bearing, it becomes slightly shorter. I will let the lbs look at it. Worst case, i only gain a few grams weight with the original bottom bearing.

I opted for the slightly heavier extralight steerer tube plug vs the ligher cane creek option given the cane creek version provides minimal support. I will use the felt carbon top cap, despite a slight weight penalty simply because it looks really nice.

The carbonwerks bottle cage is fantastic with my elite fly bottles. The neoprene coating adds a gram or two, bit that bottle is not going anywhere! Good thing as it may go on my Scott Spark xc bike.

Finally, the xpedo thrust sl ti pedals are very nice looking. They come with two sets of cleats. They should be identical to the garmin cleats, but i want to try them out.
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Last edited by RocketRacing on Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

A few more. The gummies were a nice touch, but hard. Good news was that customs missed my order, and i avoided a few hundred in tax/duty/processing.

Time to get spokes measured, ordered, and then get those wheels built! Also waiting on my custom darimo order. :-)
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RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

A few more things arrived.

First, back to the cane creek AER headset with cone spacer; that came out to 43.5g. Compared to the 77g fsa parts that came with the bike, i saved 33.5g.

I also recieved two elite crono aero bottles with fibreglass mounts. They come out at 99g each, including mount, but not bolts. Not bad, but my carbonworks holder and elite fly 550ml bottle are 60g total, add 4 more grams for a 750ml bottle. So the aero gains of the pair of cronos come at a 80g weight penalty.

The cronos look pretty good, but i immediatly blacked out the white logos on the bottle mounts, and on the cap. Only the white elite text now remains. I don’t want too much visual noise on my bike.

The bottle mounts are solid, and heavy! I can’t see the bottles releasing. I plan to hit them with a dremel soon, as i would say they are very much overbuilt, especially near the bottom. I will see what i can shave off in a way that will look ok, and not hurt aero.

Aero is faster... but man it sucks to gain 80g when that weight costs so much to shave off...
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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Can't have it all ;-)
I know what you mean, it's often horrendous prices involved going WW.

I just swapped Hyperstem (82g) for Tune Geiles (127g).
AX Premium 97g for Bike Ahead Setback seatpost (128g).
Returned my bottle cages (9.8g with bolts), they seemed like they were going to snap if i forced a bottle in place.
Ordered same i have, again, 18g no bolts.
I just can't use super stiff cages. How the hell are you getting bottles in/out of those when you ride?
They need some flex to work for me.

I'm contemplating if i should chance on a light weight handlebar, or just wait and see what comes out later on.
The current fave bar is rather heavy.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

I have no issues with bottle entry on the carbonworks holders, but i use elite fly bottles which are a touch smaller in diameter than say camelback.

The etite crono bottles take a bit of force to get out. I suspect it will soften in time, but at the moment i can’t see a bottle being ejected even if it was fillled with lead.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 2779
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Question is, does it flex or is it stiff to a point you can't use a camelback?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:00 pm
Question is, does it flex or is it stiff to a point you can't use a camelback?
I can use a camelback in the carbonworks just fine, but i prefer the lightness and spout design of the elite fly.

I have other bottle holders (mt zoom) where the camelback just does not fit in without forcing it, and scraping the crap out of it (but many other bottle makes do fit). I have learned that not all bottles are the same diameter, and fit issues can often be solved with choice of a different bottle.

RocketRacing
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

The most marginal of gains.

Last night i filed the bolt tracks for the crono bottle holders. I was able to lengthen them to allow about 2-3mm lower placement of each bottle on the bike frame.

In the photo below is the lowest position i can get the rear bottle, allowing room to pull it out. The trick is, it would only be secured by one bolt hole (and maybe some double sided tape to prevent rotation). Not a great solution given round frame tubes, and probably flying too close to the sun of marginal gains to be worth it.

Here is the theoretical/sketchy super low position:
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Here they are dropped a few mm. Marginal gains baby!!!
C0B3FFB7-17DF-4FA8-8AE8-F2EB6A1B181C.jpeg

Stefano
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:24 am
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan

by Stefano

Beautiful. I love the commitment to spread tow checkerboard throughout the bike. Can't wait to see what you do next with this speed machine!

by Weenie


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LouisN
Posts: 2676
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

Do you have a weight for the frame and fork ?
What's the weight for the build now ?
Louis :)

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