Cervelo / BBRight Bottom Bracket

[mrlobber]

There still look to be some problems from time to time.
My R5 Disc will (hopefully) go back, as the BB creaking is not fixable - 3 different BBs (original SRAM, WheelsMFG, Hambini), 3 different cranks... and the creak can be repeated easily by pressing on the cranks. Since the BB shell is completely solid inside for this model, can't see any cracks, but there probably should be one or the BB shell is actually oval.

[1415chris]

WheelsMFG recommend using grease for their bottom brackets. Personally I wouldn't install aluminium inserts without a grease.
Plastic cups that's the different story.

[Roadrocket]

Personally I don ´t think dry installing of alloy cups is a good idea. Cervélo recommends synthetic grease even on the plastic cups: http://bbright.net/BBrightTM-Press-Fit-Instructions.pdf The question is what they mean by ,,synthetic grease´´.
The stock screw-together bb was installed with some white grease which looked like teflon.

While C-Bear recommends: ,,Use anti-seize paste to install C-bear bottom bracket. Do not dry install.´´ https://www.c-bear.com/en/c-bear-install

[mrlobber]

Personally I don ´t think dry installing of alloy cups is a good idea. Cervélo recommends synthetic grease even on the plastic cups: http://bbright.net/BBrightTM-Press-Fit-

More interesting is that SRAM's PF30 actually come glued in the latest Cervelos. Because of that, given that they're plastic, the removal of this stock BB is impossible without destroying it in the process.

[ryanw]

I had creaks until my C-Bear BB.

Before this I had changed cranks, chains, cassettes, jockey wheels, the lot to try and solve the issue.

I've used Loctite 641 on all my BB's in my S5.

[Calnago]

It's kind of all over the board as to the recommendations you'll get so I think just good judgement is the best practice. I just don't use grease in any pressfit application, period. I don't think the world would end if you do, but for the reasons I mentioned about the use of grease in pressfit appliactions already, I'd rather use an antiseize, as in Morgan Blue Aquaproof paste, because of it's anticorrosive properties and high adhesion, versus being "slippery" like grease. And I like to measure the shells on 4 axis' just to check to see if they're out of whack or not. Then what do you do in the case where the frame manufacturer says "dry fit" (Colnago Threadfit), but the BB cup manufacturer recommneds a retaining compound (Campy started recommending this a long time ago as a result of so many pressfit issues, even though their cups tolerances are super tight). They're both anodized surfaces so a dry fit is probably just fine since the tolerances are very good on either end and the anodization itself prevents corrosion. But still... I just used a little Aquaproof Paste as an ounce of prevention against corrosion between parts that may not get removed very often.
I guess the bottom line is I look at each situation on a case by case basis. If it's been a problem situation for a long time I may take a different approach than if it's brand new, etc.

[Roadrocket]

This is what I received from Cervelo support:

Hi,

Anti seize is fine to use. I would read the instructions of c-bear to read as use grease or anti seize.

"Use anti-seize paste to install C-bear bottom bracket. Do not dry install"

What they say is do not install dry.

Best regards.


Looks like they don´t even know what to recommend...

[Roadrocket]

Just got another answer from Cervelo-Europe support centre:

Hi,

you're welcome!

We'd recommend to use carbon paste for it. Not every anti seize past is compatible with carbon frames.

[Karvalo]

More interesting is that SRAM's PF30 actually come glued in the latest Cervelos. Because of that, given that they're plastic, the removal of this stock BB is impossible without destroying it in the process.

That would only be on the eTap 11 models though. And tbh, what would you plan to do with a stock BB after taking it out anyway?

[Calnago]

We'd recommend to use carbon paste for it. Not every anti seize past is compatible with carbon frames.

I'd like to know what and why and which antiseize paste is not compatible with carbon frames, and what would happen if you use it. Not saying there isn't stuff you shouldn't use somewhere, but I can't really imagine any of the bicycle related antiseizes posing a problem. Sounds more like an ass pulled statement that, because it came from a customer support person, starts getting thrown around the internet as fact, but no one knows what it's basis in fact is. It's answers like that which are pretty worthless without a further explanation. Perhaps they could have stated the ingredient(s) to look out for that makes some anti seize pastes incompatible with carbon ifber or it's resins. Or told you a couple specific brands that should be avoided. Or better still, recommend something that is ok to use. If some customer support person is going to make a statement like that, they should be able to back it up with some facts and/or reasoning.
That said, I wouldn't discount using carbon paste either, still probably better for the application than grease, although you wouldn't want any of it getting close to your bearings. But that goes for the antiseize stuff as well, including AquaProof paste. Using Aquaproof Paste as a bearing grease would be like creating a 100meter sprint track out of quicksand. No one's probably going to get hurt, but we're not going to see any speed records happening.

[Calnago]

More interesting is that SRAM's PF30 actually come glued in the latest Cervelos. Because of that, given that they're plastic, the removal of this stock BB is impossible without destroying it in the process.

That would only be on the eTap 11 models though. And tbh, what would you plan to do with a stock BB after taking it out anyway?

True, SRAM PF30 cups aren't expensive, and really once installed the next time you'll likely be removing it is to replace it. I did however, when looking for a creak on a Cannondale, remove one after I had installed it with retaining compound. I thought wow, ok, first time ever that process didn't work. Well, it did work, and turns out the creak was coming from the crank spindle locknut area, which had come loose on a Hollowgram crank, but back then it was almost natural to just assume any creaks and clicks from that area were coming from those damn pressfit BB's. Should have checked a few other things first. Since the PF30 cups I removed in the process were still fairly new, I just reinstalled them and said if they creak at all, bring it back and we'll redo it with some new cups. The plastic cups weren't destroyed. I just scraped any dried retaining compound away from the cups and shell then reinstalled, with Morgan Blue Aquaproof Paste just as an experiment to see if it would hold up as well as retainingn compound. Certainly not a conclusive test that it does, but no problems since. If it had creaked in the slightest after that, I would have just immediately gone the retainging compound route and been done with it.

[1415chris]

They used retainer on Ultegra version too. Since they are all plastic cups I don't think there would be any difference in how they installed the bottom brackets in different bike configurations.
By the way, it was very easy job to remove it, unlike my first bottom bracket I installed on R5 using Loctite with activator. It was a while ago. Later on I found how unwise it was to follow some advisors' philosophy to "loctite everything", when it came to replace bottom bracket. Very interesting experience. In the process I found out how strong carbon frame, even the light one, can be
Since then, my approach was first to install bb without loctite. And then if there is a problem reinstall it with Loctite. Fortunately I didn't have to do that. If the tolerances in both frame shell and bottom bracket are tight, there is no need to use retainer compound.

These days, having choice of aluminium inserts, I woud entirely skip all this plastic cups, loctite business.
And for aluminium inserts, especially threaded together, I would always use grease, quoting above poster, "period".
Installing bb is one thing. With the ease of replacing bearings in the majority of aluminium brackets it is less likely anyone woud need to replace the whole bb, but when it will come to this, it can be appreciated that the grease during installation was in use.

[Roadrocket]

We'd recommend to use carbon paste for it. Not every anti seize past is compatible with carbon frames.

I'd like to know what and why and which antiseize paste is not compatible with carbon frames, and what would happen if you use it. Not saying there isn't stuff you shouldn't use somewhere, but I can't really imagine any of the bicycle related antiseizes posing a problem. Sounds more like an ass pulled statement that, because it came from a customer support person, starts getting thrown around the internet as fact, but no one knows what it's basis in fact is. It's answers like that which are pretty worthless without a further explanation. Perhaps they could have stated the ingredient(s) to look out for that makes some anti seize pastes incompatible with carbon ifber or it's resins. Or told you a couple specific brands that should be avoided. Or better still, recommend something that is ok to use. If some customer support person is going to make a statement like that, they should be able to back it up with some facts and/or reasoning.
That said, I wouldn't discount using carbon paste either, still probably better for the application than grease, although you wouldn't want any of it getting close to your bearings. But that goes for the antiseize stuff as well, including AquaProof paste. Using Aquaproof Paste as a bearing grease would be like creating a 100meter sprint track out of quicksand. No one's probably going to get hurt, but we're not going to see any speed records happening.

I really don´t know why they wouldn´t recommend anti-seize and I didn´t even bother to ask because as you can see I got that reply probably from some person sitting in his office without getting in touch with their bicycles. Their reply badly contradict the reply from Cervelo intl. support.
About carbon paste, I´ve heard it is commonly used on plastic cups, but never heard about it using on alloy cups.

[Roadrocket]

They used retainer on Ultegra version too. Since they are all plastic cups I don't think there would be any difference in how they installed the bottom brackets in different bike configurations.
By the way, it was very easy job to remove it, unlike my first bottom bracket I installed on R5 using Loctite with activator. It was a while ago. Later on I found how unwise it was to follow some advisors' philosophy to "loctite everything", when it came to replace bottom bracket. Very interesting experience. In the process I found out how strong carbon frame, even the light one, can be
Since then, my approach was first to install bb without loctite. And then if there is a problem reinstall it with Loctite. Fortunately I didn't have to do that. If the tolerances in both frame shell and bottom bracket are tight, there is no need to use retainer compound.

These days, having choice of aluminium inserts, I woud entirely skip all this plastic cups, loctite business.
And for aluminium inserts, especially threaded together, I would always use grease, quoting above poster, "period".
Installing bb is one thing. With the ease of replacing bearings in the majority of aluminium brackets it is less likely anyone woud need to replace the whole bb, but when it will come to this, it can be appreciated that the grease during installation was in use.

I´ve got the Ultegra version and the cups(alloy BBB 72) were not installed with retainer. As I said above, there was only some white grease, I guess some teflon kind of.
They were quite easy to remove.

What grease did you use with alloy cups(non screw-together)?

I didn´t imagine it will be so tough to find the right stuff to install my C-Bear BB

[bikeboy1tr]

Yes, that’s what I say, but sometimes I just get tired of repeating it. Grease is not what you want in the interface between the shell and the cups. It facilities movement, and in a pressfit application that’s the last thing you want. What grease may do is lull you into thinking all is good when in fact it simply masks the creaking that you would otherwise be hearing if movement were happening without it. I’ve been having good success with Morgan Blue AquaProof Paste as it has a high adhesion factor and also acts as an antiseize corrosion preventer. For a problem fit, I’d use a retaining compound such as 609 plus primer. Not a threadlocker. I think there’s some various other slightly different retaining compounds by loctite that would be appropriate too. I can’t remember where 641 sits in the scale of things but I think it’s one. Just make sure everything is squeaky clean when you use it. If the fit is very good, you should be able to just do a dry fit, nothing, just press the cups in. If there is no movement (ideal) then you won’t hear any creaks. Colnago for example recommends a dry fit when pressing cups into their Threadfit BB. Chris King recommends (or at least used to last time I installed one) also recommends a dry fit. I know Cervelos have been a bit notorious for creaking BB’s, and so have a Cannondales, but I’ve fixed enough now that I don’t even waste my breath badmouthing pressfit anymore since installed with care it seems to work fine. No use crying over the demise of the threaded BB shell as those days are gone for the most part. Not all “progress” is an improvement.

I think this site should have a pinned BB thread so you dont have to repeat yourself. It would likely be a huge thread though.