HED Belgium + vs. AForce AL33

[clarinet5001]

I'm deciding between these two rims for a custom build. I could pick the AL33 (490-505g, 32.5 depth, 19.6 internal, 24.2 - 26.2 external) for its A2 Wind Tunnel test cred, or the Belgium + (460-470g, 24 depth, 20.7 internal, 25 external) for its extra internal width and slightly lighter weight.

Terrain is mostly rolling with more frequent summer mountain trips, and I'll be using them with a 2016 [rim brake by default] Scott Foil. I want to pass on carbon for better braking and much cheaper rim replacement costs long-term. I could consider the AL33 ceramic for that 'sexy carbon look.'

Have any of you tried wheelsets with either or both of these rims and if so, what do you think?

[bm0p700f]

The rim you have not considered is the Easton R90 SL. Like the HED but 2mm deeper and properly tubeless compatible.

The HED rim needs a fair bit of tape to create enough friction with the tyre bead to retain the tyre well enough at zero pressure so it does not unseat as you come to stop in case of a big flat or when you try to push a tyre plug in the sidewall. this is a critical part of tubeless compatibility.

The easton rim has features to retain the tyre as does the a force rim so thats one difference.

If your using tubes then the above is meaningless and the HED rim provides the easiest tyre fitting. The HED rim is very pretty and the the build up nicely. So does the easton and so would the A force rim probably athough I have never used that rim yet.

My choice would be for tubed tyre the HED rim, for tubeless tyres the Eason rim. The A force rim does not appeal to me. It wants to be an aero rim bit for more I would buy myself a carbon rim 50mm deep and have a real aero gain rather than a pretend one.

[clarinet5001]

If testing 0.7w behind Zipp 303 Firecrest isn't enough to refer to it as 'somewhat aero' then fair enough. I could've had a disc brake bike if I knew to wait another year: Foil Disc hit the market in 2017.

Easton R90SL was the third rim I was considering but figured it would be similar enough to the HED not to mention, whoops. I wasn't planning on running tubeless at least initially. Haven't tried it before, but also the Easton is a bit cheaper than the HED which is appealing as well.

[StevenH72]

I faced a similar decision to you last year and went Al33.

Built up with Tune MigMag hugs and CX-Rays. The wheelset came in at 1,495g (with two layers of rim tape).

As for the 'pretend' aero claims. I feel more benefit on the flats going from a set of box-section Mavic Aksiums to the AL33's than I do going from the AL33's to 62mm deep Reynold Strikes.

I've been seriously impressed with the AL33's and for rolling terrain (especially in the wet) they are definitely my first choice.

I'm awaiting a custom bike build to be delivered in the next few weeks which has been built up with Enve 3.4s so I'll be able to provide a comparison between the 3.4's and AL33's too.

[StevenH72]

Also, I can't compare to the HED, but the AL33 is a very stiff rim. I'm 77-81kg (depending on time of year) and have never had any brake rub issues.

EDIT:

Just seen the questions you've asked of me in the other thread. The build is a 20:24 spoke pattern and Machined Side Walls, not the ceramic finish.

I think I've answered everything else. I rode the AL33's (tubeless with Schwalbe Pro Ones) from London to Milan late last summer, over a few mountain passes (including the San Gottardo Pass with a 7km cobbled descent... climbed it the 'reverse' way given my direction of travel), never felt they were heavy, they descended very well, handled the cobbles better than my riding partners' bikes did (based on their complaints) and generally did themselves proud.

[clarinet5001]

What's the AL33's ride quality like? That's the main reason I was still using some mediocre Shimano wheels. The front end on my bike rides very firmly so the way they take the edge off that is very much appreciated. That said, they're 15c rims (C24) so I know I can drop the pressure more by going wider. That's also the main reason I was looking ad the Belgiums as well, figuring I could drop the pressure an additional 5psi or so with them compared to with the AForce and Easton rims.

I was going to get the regular machined version as well. The black looks awesome but I'm about practicality and usability: whatever wheels I get will be on my bike for the next 10000+mi.

[StevenH72]

What's the AL33's ride quality like? That's the main reason I was still using some mediocre Shimano wheels. The front end on my bike rides very firmly so the way they take the edge off that is very much appreciated. That said, they're 15c rims (C24) so I know I can drop the pressure more by going wider. That's also the main reason I was looking ad the Belgiums as well, figuring I could drop the pressure an additional 5psi or so with them compared to with the AForce and Easton rims.

I was going to get the regular machined version as well. The black looks awesome but I'm about practicality and usability: whatever wheels I get will be on my bike for the next 10000+mi.

I think the ride quality of the AL33's is excellent, that said, I run the 25mm Schwalbe's at 80psi front and 85 rear, which is bound to help. As I mentioned, over a 7km descent which all of the peopel I rode with detested, I genuinely enjoyed. The wheels and ride quality have to have made a big impact there.


I also ride a lot around Surrey in the UK, which has terrible road surfaces. One of the reasons I don't always ride the Reynolds as they can be a bit jarring over potted surfaces. The AL33's definitely make in more tolerable.

[clarinet5001]

What's the AL33's ride quality like? That's the main reason I was still using some mediocre Shimano wheels. The front end on my bike rides very firmly so the way they take the edge off that is very much appreciated. That said, they're 15c rims (C24) so I know I can drop the pressure more by going wider. That's also the main reason I was looking ad the Belgiums as well, figuring I could drop the pressure an additional 5psi or so with them compared to with the AForce and Easton rims.

I was going to get the regular machined version as well. The black looks awesome but I'm about practicality and usability: whatever wheels I get will be on my bike for the next 10000+mi.

I think the ride quality of the AL33's is excellent, that said, I run the 25mm Schwalbe's at 80psi front and 85 rear, which is bound to help. As I mentioned, over a 7km descent which all of the peopel I rode with detested, I genuinely enjoyed. The wheels and ride quality have to have made a big impact there.


I also ride a lot around Surrey in the UK, which has terrible road surfaces. One of the reasons I don't always ride the Reynolds as they can be a bit jarring over potted surfaces. The AL33's definitely make in more tolerable.

Ok, that's good to know. I had a 'bad' experience with alloy-spoked Campags which were too harsh for my bike. If they're noticeably smoother than your Reynolds deep rims then at the 75-80psi or so I was expecting to run that should be low enough for sure to keep things nice and smooth. In reality I know tire pressure makes the biggest difference but apparently those alloy spokes ride pretty firmly. So it might be nothing to worry about anyway.

[clarinet5001]

EDIT: extra post, how to delete?

[pdlpsher1]

I can’t say enough good things on the Belgium +. It’s a very well made rim that builds up to an even tension on all of the spokes. It’s very strong and very light for the wide width. One feature I really like about them is that the rear rim has asymmetrically drilled spoke holes. This allows the nipples to be aligned with the spoke angle. One half of the holes are drilled at a shallower angle for the non-driveside and one half are drilled at a steeper angle for the driveside. Most people don’t know about this feature, even wheel builders. Each rim is marked with a white sticker, either ‘F’ or ‘R’. When shopping online you typically can’t specify which version to buy. But if you end up getting the Belgiums make sure you get one of each. The front rim has symmetrical offset drilling. Good luck with your build.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pdlpsher1]

Here’s a video demonstration on the Hed’s asymmetrical rear spoke hole drilling. This is on the Belgium non-plus rim but the newer + rims work the same.

https://youtu.be/IYnYUqXR41g


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dim]

I had a set of wheels built by a very good wheel builder here in the UK

I spent days researching the internet, reading reviews etc from people who actually owned the wheels. At the end, I opted for HED Belgium Plus rims, Chris King R45 hubs (the ceramic bearing version), and Sapim CX-Ray spokes.

Not the lightest (I think the wheelset weighs just over 1600 grams), tubeless ready aswell ...

some reviews:

https://lifeisabeautifuldetail.com/blog ... set-review

https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog ... ed-belgium

https://fairwheelbikes.com/hed-belgium- ... -wheelset/

I've used tubeless tyres as well as clinchers .... I will buy the HED rims again

[RyanBuildsWheels]

Apologies for the a bit of thread necromancy here but thought it was worth me chiming in as we use this rim a LOT, hoping that the blog post below has plenty of info that others's might find useful.

We use the AL33 all the time: love it! It's quickly become our go to high end alloy performance driven rim of choice for both rim and disk brake applications and I ride a pair myself. We've built up with HED rims from time to time in the past, but the AL33 builds up so much better time and time again. At only 24mm height the Belgium+ just doesn't bring much to the table in terms of performance versus the AL33's superior aerodynamics...and with the Belgium+ being the same £140rrp...I really don't see the point I'm afraid! Not knocking it, plenty of folks riding those rims, but I don't feel the price can be justified. The AL33 on the other hand is really quite unique, and deserving of the premium it demands.

A link to our blog post with more info below.

https://www.ryanbuildswheels.co.uk/a-force-al33/

[bm0p700f]

I think people misunderstood the phrase pretend aero. My point was the a force rims is not cheap and wheel with it are not much less than the carbon wheels i build with so if you want aero gains go deeper and spend a bit more.

There are other reasons to pick the a force rim. However i do disagree with what posted above. The point of the hed rims is they look good. Not everyone want deeper. They also build up well. Well so do alot of other rims. The cheaper kinlins i use build as well. So rrp is not justified by how easily a rim builds up. If that the case you should all be riding xr31t rims as this is the quickest rim i have ever used to build up. I have used hundreds and they are all the same, round and flat.

Therefore rrp means little to me. Your buying something else with price. Mostly looks, the smooth invisible join, the finely machined brake track...

[jfranci3]

If testing 0.7w behind Zipp 303 Firecrest isn't enough to refer to it as 'somewhat aero' then fair enough. I could've had a disc brake bike if I knew to wait another year: Foil Disc hit the market in 2017.

Easton R90SL was the third rim I was considering but figured it would be similar enough to the HED not to mention, whoops. I wasn't planning on running tubeless at least initially. Haven't tried it before, but also the Easton is a bit cheaper than the HED which is appealing as well.

You mean 5w at 10deg steady? https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog ... her-alloys
With a MUCH sharper detachment? on a 23c tire? It's not .7 or 5w in the real world on a modern tire. These would not compare even close on an Hambini-type more-real-world unstable air test.
AL33 in any case. No idea how they brake.