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Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:36 pm
by petert123
Finding some frame builders offering internal routing for (hydro) disc brakes, but others excluding this. I would like have all internal routing, for a 4 season bike build, any tips for brands I might not have found yet? Current favourite no. 22.

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:50 pm
by none
Seems to me it's easy enough to drill holes for internal routing, but the hard part is getting the cables through.

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:50 pm
by Weenie

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:30 pm
by de lars cuevas
This is my custom Pilot mountainbike with internal cabing, using full lenght internal liner tubes:

Image
Image

Since it's set up singlespeed, I only use the liners for the hydraulic brake hose. Full story(s) here: https://www.velozine.nl/2018/11/26/proj ... ed-deel-3/

Pilot cycles https://www.pilotcycles.com/nl/196/pilo ... s/modellen is a Dutch titanium brand. Design in the Netherlands, production in the far east. They offer standard and custom frames. Standard roadbike frames come with these liners for 2000€ . Their custom work is not "Crisp-depth" custom, but very affordable: custom geo will just cost you 250€ extra.

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:11 pm
by petert123
Great, thanks for the link. Looking for a road frame, to use all year, where it can be setup with (cheaper) wheels and fenders in the UK winter and carbon wheels and no fenders in the summer; would like a race geometry, internal routing, suttle bosses for fender mounting and enough room for 28's and 25's and fenders probably?

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
by Lugan
Mosaic will build your frame with any specific cable arrangement you want. Mine is set up for eTap, which of course means no shiter cable/wire routing at all, but internal hydro brake hose routing. Their routing is super clean - can't be cleaner. Highly recommended.

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:54 pm
by petert123
Lugan wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Mosaic will build your frame with any specific cable arrangement you want. Mine is set up for eTap, which of course means no shiter cable/wire routing at all, but internal hydro brake hose routing. Their routing is super clean - can't be cleaner. Highly recommended.
Thanks, I've had Mosaic on my radar for a while, but they are costly coming from the US, I'm in the UK. But as you say they will probably build just what I'm after.

I would do the same if I went for eTap, only holes for the brake hoses, super clean I bet it is.

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:47 pm
by euan
Shoot Albannach a message, they are UK based custom titanium with Far East production

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:20 pm
by pamountainbiker
Lugan wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Mosaic will build your frame with any specific cable arrangement you want. Mine is set up for eTap, which of course means no shiter cable/wire routing at all, but internal hydro brake hose routing. Their routing is super clean - can't be cleaner. Highly recommended.
Is this new news? I have two Mosaic RT-1's and am working on desigining a third, this time with disc brakes. They - Mosaic - will not fully route the disc hose internally, unless something has changed and they are willing to do this now. They will only route it internally in the downtube at which point it exits a few inches above the BB and then goes externally to the brake. Firefly is the same, so is Baum (Aus located). Here are the reasons. Firefly, Mosaic and I assume Baum are pretty adamant that the disc hose run enclosed in a small diameter ti tube within the host tube because the disc hose needs support. There's no way to feasibly do this in a tube to tube welded bike. Additionally in Mosaic's case unless Aaron has changed his mind, won't do T47 BB. Only traditional BSA which doesn't give enough room or BB30, which in theory could, except...it would require a slot cut through the BB sleeve to accommodate the bend of the hose either within the shell internally or externally like Baum who uses T47.

The only American, at least, custom ti manufacturers I am aware of that will do full internal routing are Bingham (Eriksen) and 22. In both cases they don't adhere to the whole "support the hose the whole way in a tube" theory. Additionally, even in a T47 shell, routing a disc hose, and potentially Di2 wires makes for a very tight fit indeed. But it can be done. It's not optimal, but it can be done. This is what Bingham told me. Possible, but very tight.

I like 22 Bikes, I like internal routing, but ultimately, I think Aaron / Mosaic, Tyler / Firefly and Baum have it right. For ti frames it's most likely best to route internally via downtube to right before the BB at which point the hose can run externally.

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:31 pm
by Hoven
Stelbel Ti9

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:56 pm
by logy
J Laverack. Almost total internal. Just got a custom R Jack. Best bike I’ve ever ridden.


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Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:36 pm
by Seedster
I would call Bertoletti at Legend. I’m pretty sure they have full internal routing on the Il Re disc. He is not cheap, but permits a lot of customization options


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Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:34 pm
by petert123
pamountainbiker wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:20 pm
Is this new news? I have two Mosaic RT-1's and am working on desigining a third, this time with disc brakes. They - Mosaic - will not fully route the disc hose internally, unless something has changed and they are willing to do this now. They will only route it internally in the downtube at which point it exits a few inches above the BB and then goes externally to the brake. Firefly is the same, so is Baum (Aus located). Here are the reasons. Firefly, Mosaic and I assume Baum are pretty adamant that the disc hose run enclosed in a small diameter ti tube within the host tube because the disc hose needs support. There's no way to feasibly do this in a tube to tube welded bike. Additionally in Mosaic's case unless Aaron has changed his mind, won't do T47 BB. Only traditional BSA which doesn't give enough room or BB30, which in theory could, except...it would require a slot cut through the BB sleeve to accommodate the bend of the hose either within the shell internally or externally like Baum who uses T47.

The only American, at least, custom ti manufacturers I am aware of that will do full internal routing are Bingham (Eriksen) and 22. In both cases they don't adhere to the whole "support the hose the whole way in a tube" theory. Additionally, even in a T47 shell, routing a disc hose, and potentially Di2 wires makes for a very tight fit indeed. But it can be done. It's not optimal, but it can be done. This is what Bingham told me. Possible, but very tight.

I like 22 Bikes, I like internal routing, but ultimately, I think Aaron / Mosaic, Tyler / Firefly and Baum have it right. For ti frames it's most likely best to route internally via downtube to right before the BB at which point the hose can run externally.
Thanks for this information, makes sense that there are not many fully-internal-routed frames out there? Feels like because it's more difficult builders are keeping away from it, despite T47. Frustrating that many sites don't show pictures that highlight their routing method is external all or part ways - those that do show the hose exiting just before the bottom bracket look terrible. Can only imagine what a mess that is riding in UK winters.

Kind of wonder why it's not an issue for carbon frames, noting that most of these have a press-fit bottom-bracket, so there is space for hoses - doesn't feel like they also support the hose the whole way?

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:22 pm
by Lugan
pamountainbiker wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:20 pm
Is this new news? I have two Mosaic RT-1's and am working on desigining a third, this time with disc brakes. They - Mosaic - will not fully route the disc hose internally, unless something has changed and they are willing to do this now. They will only route it internally in the downtube at which point it exits a few inches above the BB and then goes externally to the brake.
Sorry, my original post was imprecise: The rear brake hose is as you describe: Internal for most of the downtube, then external all the way back to the caliper.

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:33 pm
by MyM3Coupe
none wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:50 pm
Seems to me it's easy enough to drill holes for internal routing . . .
Yes, stress concentrations are great for safety (kidding). To the OP if your going with mechanical shifting forget internal routing as it typically degrades shift performance.

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:33 pm
by Weenie

Re: Titanium road frames with internal routing

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:07 pm
by Mockenrue
Kinesis GTD or GF Ti Disc?