Titanium road frames with internal routing

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
petert123
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:02 pm

by petert123

Mockenrue wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:07 pm
Kinesis GTD or GF Ti Disc?
neither route the rear break hose fully, exits before the bottom bracket as far as I can see - again the pictures don't show this clearly.

by Weenie


Jugi
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi


MyM3Coupe wrote:To the OP if your going with mechanical shifting forget internal routing as it typically degrades shift performance.
I wouldn't say that is categorically true. If the cable routing is the same, meaning the cable is guided along the same route but "integrated" is inside a frame tube and "non-integrated" is outside, that will mean something like a 20-30mm difference in the actual cable route in relation to frame. In that case the integration won't affect the radius of housing bends etc., so performance should be closely comparable.

The devil is in the details. There aren't many options in designing non-integrated cable routing. However integrated cable routing may be accomplished in a number of ways.

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pdlpsher1
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Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

This is how Litespeed does it.

Image

petert123
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:02 pm

by petert123

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:27 pm
This is how Litespeed does it.
The most tidy version of this I've seen so far!

Looks like Passoni Top Force does full internal routing, but it's a press-fit BB and that price! Get what you pay for I guess. Been in contact with No. 22 to confirm they also do full, but the import costs start to bump it up against pricier Passoni. I'd forgetten about T-Red, looking now at their options.

Prawn
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:44 am

by Prawn

In addition to Stelbel Ti9 and Passoni mentioned above, Wittson makes the Suppresio road frame with internal routing (and a BSA bottom bracket as an option). I’ve seen all three and marvelled at their craftsmanship.

TheKaiser
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:29 pm

by TheKaiser

petert123 wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:57 pm
pdlpsher1 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:27 pm
This is how Litespeed does it.
The most tidy version of this I've seen so far!

Looks like Passoni Top Force does full internal routing, but it's a press-fit BB and that price! Get what you pay for I guess. Been in contact with No. 22 to confirm they also do full, but the import costs start to bump it up against pricier Passoni. I'd forgetten about T-Red, looking now at their options.
You can see one iteration of the T-Red fully internal hose routing here, about halfway down the page: https://bikerumor.com/2016/03/07/nahbs- ... -crankset/

I really dig some of the stuff they do with the designed in compliance in the seatstays and seat tube. It's one of the few bikes I seen achieve a flex level comparable to Trek Isospeed, but without any pivots or shock hardware. In addition, depending on your point of view, it could be better (or worse) as the compliance can occur both at the seat and the rear axle itself.

Having said all that, I don't think I'd go for that iteration of the internal routing pictured above. Hopefully they have a new version that is easier to get a hose through. They do seem like a pretty open minded company, willing to get a little wild with the innovation.

teleguy57
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:29 am

by teleguy57

Late to the discussion, but check out Erik Rolf https://alliancebicycles.com/. He does a fully internal routing (downtube, through BB, through NDS chainstay) on ti bikes with a T47 BB.

Image

Matija
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:35 pm

by Matija

Does anyone know Ti frameset that offers complete internal disc brakes routing, like newer carbon frames (V3RS, Addict, Propel...)?
If it’s even possible to achieve it with Ti.

kode54
Posts: 1619
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

I thought the issue with internal routing for hydraulic was that you couldn't see if there are any compromises to the hose...like rubbing on the edges of the Ti frame for example.

Even Moots have external routing. I think No. 22 has a thin tube that channels from one end to the other exit and those should not have any issues because of the extra internal tubing.
pamountainbiker wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:20 pm
Lugan wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Mosaic will build your frame with any specific cable arrangement you want. Mine is set up for eTap, which of course means no shiter cable/wire routing at all, but internal hydro brake hose routing. Their routing is super clean - can't be cleaner. Highly recommended.
Is this new news? I have two Mosaic RT-1's and am working on desigining a third, this time with disc brakes. They - Mosaic - will not fully route the disc hose internally, unless something has changed and they are willing to do this now. They will only route it internally in the downtube at which point it exits a few inches above the BB and then goes externally to the brake. Firefly is the same, so is Baum (Aus located). Here are the reasons. Firefly, Mosaic and I assume Baum are pretty adamant that the disc hose run enclosed in a small diameter ti tube within the host tube because the disc hose needs support. There's no way to feasibly do this in a tube to tube welded bike. Additionally in Mosaic's case unless Aaron has changed his mind, won't do T47 BB. Only traditional BSA which doesn't give enough room or BB30, which in theory could, except...it would require a slot cut through the BB sleeve to accommodate the bend of the hose either within the shell internally or externally like Baum who uses T47.

The only American, at least, custom ti manufacturers I am aware of that will do full internal routing are Bingham (Eriksen) and 22. In both cases they don't adhere to the whole "support the hose the whole way in a tube" theory. Additionally, even in a T47 shell, routing a disc hose, and potentially Di2 wires makes for a very tight fit indeed. But it can be done. It's not optimal, but it can be done. This is what Bingham told me. Possible, but very tight.

I like 22 Bikes, I like internal routing, but ultimately, I think Aaron / Mosaic, Tyler / Firefly and Baum have it right. For ti frames it's most likely best to route internally via downtube to right before the BB at which point the hose can run externally.
- Factor 02 Disc + DA9170 + Enve 4.5AR CK CL hubs
- Moots Vamoots Disc RSL Titanium + DA9170 + Enve 3.4AR CK CL hubs
- Parlee Altum + DA9150 + Enve SES 4.5 Ene carbon hubs
- Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 + DA9170 + Enve SES 5.6 DT Swiss 240 CL hubs

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ebsilon
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:36 pm
Location: Denmark

by ebsilon

De Rosa Anima has fully internal cable routing. Both for the brake line and gear cables Image

The brake line enters the head tube and goes all the way down to the brake caliper.

Image

Image

https://www.derosa.it/en/collection/anima/
Speed of Lite

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WinterRider
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

de lars cuevas wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:30 pm
This is my custom Pilot mountainbike with internal cabing, using full lenght internal liner tubes:



Since it's set up singlespeed, I only use the liners for the hydraulic brake hose. Full story(s) here: https://www.velozine.nl/2018/11/26/proj ... ed-deel-3/

Pilot cycles https://www.pilotcycles.com/nl/196/pilo ... s/modellen is a Dutch titanium brand. Design in the Netherlands, production in the far east. They offer standard and custom frames. Standard roadbike frames come with these liners for 2000€ . Their custom work is not "Crisp-depth" custom, but very affordable: custom geo will just cost you 250€ extra.
Sure has the smell of yet another online marketing 'plaunt'... nothing on the site I could find per geo. Well written verbiage though for the masses to get their plastic currentcy in motion. The lifetime warranty via builds done in the far east.. I have to wonder how long a repair would take.. months..or even a yr.

Same ol' same ol. 👎

NickJHP
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Location: Canberra, Australia

by NickJHP


de lars cuevas
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:28 pm
Location: the Netherlands

by de lars cuevas

WinterRider wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:49 pm
Sure has the smell of yet another online marketing 'plaunt'... nothing on the site I could find per geo. Well written verbiage though for the masses to get their plastic currentcy in motion. The lifetime warranty via builds done in the far east.. I have to wonder how long a repair would take.. months..or even a yr.
Same ol' same ol. 👎
Hi there, I'm not a native speaker, I don't quite get what you mean. Could you elaborate?

Cheers, Lars

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WinterRider
Posts: 564
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

Lars I mean.. with only half a cup of coffee so far this morn (my attitude awakening is more critical then).. that I was stating the frame was something generic minus specifics to review. As in actual frame geometry for standard builds. And for instance if someone here in the states owned one the adjustment/repair scenario would take very long.

But.. what do I know. I did state is was well marketed via the write-up. ( I have marketing experience ). Appeared to me the post actually was a commercial message for the brand. Nothing really wrong with that... that is done all the time on this venue.
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 2 yrs from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

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