Best Groupset in your opinion

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
robertbb
Posts: 1515
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

hambini wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:45 am
probertsqbe wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:24 pm

Hambini just picked up on your comment re your development of hubs. I couldn’t see any listed on your website. Are there anymore details you could share or pm me a link?

One of the developments in material technology is a material called superlight. It's an Aluminium alloy with hexagonal crystalline construction. This is about 50% lighter than normal aluminium and almost all of the tensile strength. I have made a couple of these for test purposes for some of the pro cycling teams I supply.

I do not supply them on the open market yet and the manufacturing process to make them is currently hideously expensive and time-consuming.

Hope that helps

Hambini
I'll take a tubeset for a frame build. K, thanks. Where do I send my money?

hambini
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

ome rodriguez wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:59 am
True.

Image
Image
Image
Appalling.
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...

by Weenie


IvanZg
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:10 pm

by IvanZg

It's very ironic that this sort of imprecise manufacturing lead them to create new spindle standard at 28,99mm. Might end up using 30mm axle inside those bbs :D

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wheelsONfire
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Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

The best shouldn't that be the most reliable?
Or is it the highest degree of precision?
It's debatable and probably subjective.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

Seedster
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by Seedster

Campagnolo EPS SR V3

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Lewn777
Posts: 942
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

SRAM red mech rim brake but with ee or Shimano Dura-Ace brake calipers if you are building a climbing training bike.
SRAM red etap rim brake if you are building a race climbing bike.

Shimano Dura-Ace R9120 anything hydraulic disk.

parajba
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:00 pm
Location: London, United Kingdom

by parajba

What are the official confirmed weights of eTap HRD vs Di2 Durace 9170?

froze
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:47 am

by froze

I'm going to go a bit crazy here and say the best groupset is 105 as a whole; but one could go with a Ultegra rear derailleur to put the cherry on top. You're only giving up about 190 grams in weight to the Ultegra (not including the swap to the Ultegra rear on a 105 setup), but you're saving about $400 (again not including the Ultegra rear). Switching the rear derailleur from 105 to Ultegra will save you about 25 grams and cost you about $40 more, but the Ultegra rear is just a wee bit smoother and wee bitquicker operating derailleur but it supposedly uses better internal components to make it last longer, for $40 I think it's worth it. I would also use DA cables instead of standard Shimano cables, the cables will make the biggest difference in how smooth 105 will operate; with 105 and DA cables you would be hard press to tell the difference between 105 and even DA!

I personally don't think DA is worth buying at all unless your racing and a sponsor is paying for you to have it. Most people can't even tell the difference between 105 and Ultegra

vanmatthew
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:20 am

by vanmatthew

I'm a huge fan of electronic shifting so I would say newest gen Di2.

Mep
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 4:11 pm

by Mep

This is WW, the collective opinion on best groupset has got to be Sram Red mechanical. Hambini's point on manufacturing tolerances is well taken, but those discrepancies are too small to matter for real-world shifting performance.

RocketRacing
Posts: 947
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

by RocketRacing

hambini wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:37 am

I meant the 1mm length of the 24mm bit on GXP. Diameter does not vary by 1mm but it's still ~0.075mm versus Shimano which is around 0.025mm. Non drive side is fixed so the adjustment is by shims and the take up is on the wave washer.

Sample size is over 20 that I've measured and at least 35 that users have measured (for the length). For the diameter it's only the one's I have measured. I used to ask for this measurement before making BB's. I have since stopped making SRAM GXP BB's
Hmm... interesting. But i am guessing there is more to it.

So you measured 20 or so? What was the variability of red vs say apex?

No question that the japanese have a reputation for precision. Also interesting that shimano sora vs dura ace are also all equally precise in machining consistency.

What are sram bb30 tolerences like? Dub (agreed with the prior poster with the irony of that)? I presume sram upped their precision game with dub.

Precision is a choice, and is directly related to cost. Drops in precision are usually related to hitting lower manufacturing price points (or higher profit margins).

How critical is the accuracy of the bit(i assume you mean spindle length)? Maybe it was a concous cost cutting measure, given length (or even diameter) is not mission critical. Why be precise when there is even larger variability in the frames themselves? Most require spacers anyway. Again, maybe sram chose not to be precise here because the frame accuracy across an industry was kind of crap... and it would be a drop in a bucket.

Also, i think the sram spindles are press-fit into the cranks. Those machining tolerances must be very tight for retention. As such, the bit length variation may be a result in differences in seating. The actual lengths may be pretty consistent.

Maybe another component in a groupset would be a better indicator of quality. I presume chain, casette, and chainring tolerances are probably the most important. I know shimano chains are the best in my mind.

I also presume that the standard of machining tolerances improve as you go up in groupset price (red > apex). Doesn’t shimano do xt/ultegra/da/xtr in japan, and the rest elsware? I wonder if sram does their groupsets in different factories. That might account for variability.

I still suspect shimano wins on precision on things like casettes/chains/chainrings. No question they shift well. Still prefer my etap functionality and design, and i do have both. For offroad, i have been very happy with 1x mechanical xtr however.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

8050 or 8070

Power crank of your choice and party on.
Using Tapatalk

uraqt
Posts: 953
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:53 am

by uraqt

2001 Campagnolo record. All you kids with your batteries and two more gears let me know how you are doing in 20 years ..... : )

hambini
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:13 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

by hambini

RocketRacing wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:52 am
hambini wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:37 am

I meant the 1mm length of the 24mm bit on GXP. Diameter does not vary by 1mm but it's still ~0.075mm versus Shimano which is around 0.025mm. Non drive side is fixed so the adjustment is by shims and the take up is on the wave washer.

Sample size is over 20 that I've measured and at least 35 that users have measured (for the length). For the diameter it's only the one's I have measured. I used to ask for this measurement before making BB's. I have since stopped making SRAM GXP BB's
Hmm... interesting. But i am guessing there is more to it.

So you measured 20 or so? What was the variability of red vs say apex?

No question that the japanese have a reputation for precision. Also interesting that shimano sora vs dura ace are also all equally precise in machining consistency.

What are sram bb30 tolerences like? Dub (agreed with the prior poster with the irony of that)? I presume sram upped their precision game with dub.

Precision is a choice, and is directly related to cost. Drops in precision are usually related to hitting lower manufacturing price points (or higher profit margins).

How critical is the accuracy of the bit(i assume you mean spindle length)? Maybe it was a concous cost cutting measure, given length (or even diameter) is not mission critical. Why be precise when there is even larger variability in the frames themselves? Most require spacers anyway. Again, maybe sram chose not to be precise here because the frame accuracy across an industry was kind of crap... and it would be a drop in a bucket.

Also, i think the sram spindles are press-fit into the cranks. Those machining tolerances must be very tight for retention. As such, the bit length variation may be a result in differences in seating. The actual lengths may be pretty consistent.

Maybe another component in a groupset would be a better indicator of quality. I presume chain, casette, and chainring tolerances are probably the most important. I know shimano chains are the best in my mind.

I also presume that the standard of machining tolerances improve as you go up in groupset price (red > apex). Doesn’t shimano do xt/ultegra/da/xtr in japan, and the rest elsware? I wonder if sram does their groupsets in different factories. That might account for variability.

I still suspect shimano wins on precision on things like casettes/chains/chainrings. No question they shift well. Still prefer my etap functionality and design, and i do have both. For offroad, i have been very happy with 1x mechanical xtr however.
I'm not really commenting on the shifting because it's open to interpretation but in hard numbers the variance on SRAM is high. It's generally IT10 on the tolerance class, where Shimano is IT7. Campag is around IT8-9

In general, if you move up and down in the groupset range, the tolerances seem to stick. So 105 is still IT7 like Dura Ace but with a weight penalty. The country of manufacture doesn't seem to affect the tolerance range. Malaysia or Japan, both are consistent.

This doesn't affect cranks only. Measuring the positions of pins and bearing locations is much more consistent on Shimano than SRAM. There is day and night difference.

My conclusion is Shimano's manufacturing engineering expertise is the best in the groupset industry. They are very precise and repeatable.
Hambini Aeronautical Engineer, Polluting YouTube since 2016 - views expressed are my own...

by Weenie


StevenH72
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:17 pm

by StevenH72

What real life consequences is this likely to have Hambini?

I'm about to pull the trigger on a groupset and was set on Sram, people I've spoken to at my club can't speak highly enough of it.

I have read that in comparison tests Shimano shifts that bit quicker / crisper than Sram. Is that likely to be because of the tolerance class differences?

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