Custom frame build experience

[kgibbo1868]

Hi everyone, I have started down the path of a custom frame. I was hoping some of you who have been down this path before me would be willing to share some of their experiences (good and bad) with me. This will be a big thing for me and I really want to get it right the first time. My builder will spend 3-4 hours dialing in my fit so that should be solid. I struggle with knowing how stiff vs compliant will be right for me. I really want comfort but equally I want a race bike as well, I sure hope I get the right balance. Things I have already decided on are rim brakes and a threaded BB. An am not clear on headset, any thoughts? This will be a steel frame, what tubing does everyone like? I will be requesting the bike can accommodate 28c tyres, that will be enough for me. I want a hz tt as I like the traditional look, is that going to have any effect on handling compared to a sloped tt?
Thanks in advance, looking forward to hearing any comments.

[none]

Knowing what you are planning to do with your next bike, can help determine what you need to look for.
What type of riding do you do most?
What kind of terrain? Long steady hills or short steep hills? Smooth pavement or rough? Lots of potholes?
Do you prefer to climb out of saddle, Pantani style or steady, in-saddle 80+rpm?
Do you mostly ride bar top, hoods or drops? How do you like to attack you descends?
How much do you weigh? Average power output? Max vs sustained power output?
All that and more will help determine better suggestions.
I usually go on a 30km ride along with the person I'm trying to help custom fitting a bike, just to get some ideas how their body respond or behave under different riding conditions, how their riding position change under different stresses.

[kgibbo1868]

Knowing what you are planning to do with your next bike, can help determine what you need to look for.
What type of riding do you do most?
What kind of terrain? Long steady hills or short steep hills? Smooth pavement or rough? Lots of potholes?

Decent roads, lots of hills.

Do you prefer to climb out of saddle, Pantani style or steady, in-saddle 80+rpm?

I get out of the saddle if it’s over 10%, lower gradients I do seated unless it’s an all out effort.

Do you mostly ride bar top, hoods or drops?

Mostly hoods, in the drops when the pace is high racing.

How do you like to attack you descends?
How much do you weigh? Average power output? Max vs sustained power output?
All that and more will help determine better suggestions.

I do enjoy attaching descents, 78kgs, 177cm, 250 FTP. 50 years old, cycling for 10 years.

I usually go on a 30km ride along with the person I'm trying to help custom fitting a bike, just to get some ideas how their body respond or behave under different riding conditions, how their riding position change under different stresses.

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[pdlpsher1]

The biggest benefit of going custom is the custom geometry. The geometry is gonna determine how the bike rides. The bike fit doesn’t define the geometry. All the bike fit does is to determine the distances of the three ‘contact’ points- namely your hands, feet, and the butt.

You said you wanted a ‘race’ bike but you didn’t say if you race or not. IMHO the typical ‘race’ geometry is the worst thing for any cyclist, including the pro racers. The reason why people say they want a race bike is because they think the opposite of a race bike is a slow bike. People don’t want a ‘touring’ bike because it’s gonna be slow. It’s quite the contrary. A ‘race’ bike with a twitchy handling doesn’t inspire confidence. And a lack of confidence will make any rider slower. Plain and simple.

I have a custom bike with a ‘touring’ bike geometry (425mm chainstays, 80mm BB drop). The stability, comfort, and confidence-inspiring handling makes me a big believer in a non-racing geometry.

What do you currently ride and have you ever owned a ‘endurance’ bike such as the Trek Domane?


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[kgibbo1868]

Great points about fit vs geometry, I do race and I will race with this bike. I don’t want a twitchy bike, quite the opposite. I want a stable bike that is smooth, but not sluggish or soft feeling. I currently ride a cervelo r3 (2015) and find it is ok, but I would like it if it was more stable and required less input from me to maintain a straight line. I am quite confident the builder knows his stuff regarding geometry and fit so that should be covered.


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[pdlpsher1]

It sounds like you want a smooth handling bike that isn’t a noodle when you climb out of the saddle or sprint on it. I suggest a longish chainstays (425mm) and a 62mm trail on 25mm tires. The bike’s chainstays make the biggest impact to a frame’s ‘stiffness’. When you put out a lot of power the chainstays move sideways because the chain is offset from the center of the bike. So chainstay stiffness will give you that responsive, snappy feel. The frame’s main triangle isn’t critical in power transfer so they can be tuned to give you the perfect balance on comfort. The low BB drop on my bike was quite an eye opener. If you don’t race crits and don’t use very long cranks I’d suggest a BB drop of 80mm. I live on the top of a steep hill. To do any rides I descent that hill and hit 50mph or higher. The bike is perfectly stable and confidence inspiring at that speed. The low BB drop basically lowers your center of gravity by 10mm from the traditional 68 or 70mm drop. Some builders may like it because they fear about liability if you crash due to a pedal strike.


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[kgibbo1868]

It sounds like you want a smooth handling bike that isn’t a noodle when you climb out of the saddle or sprint on it. I suggest a longish chainstays (425mm) and a 62mm trail on 25mm tires. The bike’s chainstays make the biggest impact to a frame’s ‘stiffness’. When you put out a lot of power the chainstays move sideways because the chain is offset from the center of the bike. So chainstay stiffness will give you that responsive, snappy feel. The frame’s main triangle isn’t critical in power transfer so they can be tuned to give you the perfect balance on comfort. The low BB drop on my bike was quite an eye opener. If you don’t race crits and don’t use very long cranks I’d suggest a BB drop of 80mm. I live on the top of a steep hill. To do any rides I descent that hill and hit 50mph or higher. The bike is perfectly stable and confidence inspiring at that speed. The low BB drop basically lowers your center of gravity by 10mm from the traditional 68 or 70mm drop. Some builders may like it because they fear about liability if you crash due to a pedal strike.


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Thanks for that response, great info! My max sprinting output is around 1200 Watts so not massive but reasonable for an old fella...


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[RussellS]

My builder will spend 3-4 hours dialing in my fit so that should be solid.

Sounds nice. But hopefully you know about what geometry fits you. Hopefully you already ride a bike that fits you pretty well. And can compare the geometry of your current bike to what is suggested by the builder. The only people I think should get custom are those who cannot fit onto a regular factory built bike frame. Oddball sized people who need oddball sized bikes. And those who know exactly what they want in a custom bike frame. You know exactly what toptube length you need. And BB drop. And ST and HT angles. And chainstay length. Etc. Don't trust a custom bike maker to know what fits you. Know what fits you first. Imagine going to a custom suit maker and him telling you what fits you. I'm guessing you already know what sleeve length you need. And pant leg length you wear. And what waist size fits your hips. And what your chest size is, roughly. And what neck size you need. What the custom suit maker suggests should match very well with what you already know fits you.

[kgibbo1868]

My builder will spend 3-4 hours dialing in my fit so that should be solid.

Sounds nice. But hopefully you know about what geometry fits you. Hopefully you already ride a bike that fits you pretty well. And can compare the geometry of your current bike to what is suggested by the builder. The only people I think should get custom are those who cannot fit onto a regular factory built bike frame. Oddball sized people who need oddball sized bikes. And those who know exactly what they want in a custom bike frame. You know exactly what toptube length you need. And BB drop. And ST and HT angles. And chainstay length. Etc. Don't trust a custom bike maker to know what fits you. Know what fits you first. Imagine going to a custom suit maker and him telling you what fits you. I'm guessing you already know what sleeve length you need. And pant leg length you wear. And what waist size fits your hips. And what your chest size is, roughly. And what neck size you need. What the custom suit maker suggests should match very well with what you already know fits you.

I know my current bike fit is quite good. I don’t have any real issues and have been riding this setup for over 2 years. I am of the belief that it could be better though. Just because something is good doesn’t mean it can’t be better.... I can buy a suit of the shelf and it will fit me fine, a custom made suit will fit me perfectly. If I get a custom suit I will let the suit maker take his own measurements, I would never get a custom suit based on numbers I provide...... If you think a custom bike should only be for someone who knows exactly what the want I will just disagree and leave it at that. To find a bike that fits my perfectly in a colour of my choosing with all of the details that I am looking for is just not realistic.

[euan]

FYI you've said the key thing already. You want a more stable version of your R3. Let the builder know this and he will design a geometry around this. Hopefully he knows how.

I'm a big fan of 420mm stays on a road bike.

[Zakalwe]

I’d rather spend 3-4 hours talking about what I expect from the frame and how I intend on riding it, with 10 minutes spent on any measuring

[none]

I’d rather spend 3-4 hours talking about what I expect from the frame and how I intend on riding it, with 10 minutes spent on any measuring

Bingo, you can spend all the time in the world to get the proper fit, but the frame needs to fit your purpose.
Proper fit for a race bike may not the same as fit for touring or long distance/hours in the saddle.
Think ahead for the purpose of you custom ride, what's the intended use of your custom bike.

[RyanH]

There's a few other threads here that should be helpful but a custom bike is not time to be playing with your fit. Fitting is educated guesswork at best.

[Marin]

Who's the builder? If he's good he will know all these things.

I design my own frames and I like them just the way pdlpusher describes it - long, low and fast. I only run 75mm BB drop, but would go to 80 too if I never ran smaller wheels than 700c x 25. 175mm cranks here BTW.

[Zakalwe]

Also, all the questions in your OP can, and should, be answered by your frame builder. For example, what steel tubing I personally like is irrelevant, because I might be looking for something totally different. You tell the builder you want to race it and he or she will tell you what tubing they recommend. Someone who actually builds these things every day will serve you a great deal better than half a dozen internet strangers