*Tour Aero Bike Test 2019*

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

TobinHatesYou wrote: Everyone should be riding aero bikes on flatter stages regardless of weight limits.
Hmmm... You should give Richie Porte a call. Pretty flat stage in the Tour of California today. I guess he didn’t get your memo before lining up... left the Madone in the bus and riding the Emonda instead.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Calnago wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:31 am
TobinHatesYou wrote: Everyone should be riding aero bikes on flatter stages regardless of weight limits.
Hmmm... You should give Richie Porte a call. Pretty flat stage in the Tour of California today. I guess he didn’t get your memo before lining up... left the Madone in the bus and riding the Emonda instead.

Why does Richie’s wrong choice matter to you?

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Calnago
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by Calnago

It doesn’t. You feeling you know best however is quite hilarious.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Calnago wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:37 am
It doesn’t. You feeling you know best however is quite hilarious.

Well I do own both an Emonda SLR and a Madone SLR. I have ridden those Central Valley roads almost every weekend since February. I know which bike I would choose on a flat stage, rolling stage, windy stage, etc. I’d only choose the Emonda for really hilly stuff.

The Madone has the edge in aerodynamics and comfort...hell it even has an edge in tire clearance. The main reason why he isn’t riding a Madone is probably logistical. They rent RVs at the ToC and don’t have their big mechanics truck/bus. Especially since there is no TT this year, they may have downsized their vehicle fleet even more than last. Richie may be on the Emonda all week and riders on Madones may be on those all week. This is speculation of course. Maybe he just prefers the Emonda for inexplicable reasons...that’s not good enough for me.

ducman
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by ducman

blaugrana wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 10:55 pm
AJS914 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 2:02 pm
When Peter Sagan sprints at the end of a stage his Venge gives him a several bike lengths advantage.
Compared to what, a children's tricycle?
:lol: :lol:

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kgt
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by kgt

lol
Not even Specialized marketing department would claim "a several bikes length"

robeambro
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by robeambro

In theory crits and sprints are the only situations where an aero bike is a no brainer and will give an advantage no matter what.

In my opinion, however, for crits this is much more clear-cut. It's a long race, and you gain "all the time" a little bit, and a bit more in bridging to breakaways etc.
In sprints, yes sure, you get some advantage, but we're talking about an event (the sprint) that lasts only a dozen seconds or so. And in those very, very few seconds, there are factors that are MUCH more important than the bike, such as how fresh are your legs and your core, how good is your leadout (if any), etc, etc. An aero bike may, might, be the cherry on top, but most of the time it will not be able to compensate for any of the factors above.

I'm not saying aero frames aren't good for sprinting, just that since it's a very short-timed event, the difference they make is often overshadowed by much other important factors. Unlike in crits, where arguably you gain for hours an aero benefit.

Stueys
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by Stueys

The Specialized guys summed it up on a podcast well. The bikes performance is close enough that the pros chose their bikes based on the key moments in the stage that they are targetting, not whether the overall stage is flat, lumpy, etc, etc. If Sagan is targetting a sprint finish, he'll probably go full on aero as he wants every advantage in that final 400m; likewise a climber might be targetting a stage win on a hill top finish, he'll probably go climbing bike as the key moment of the race for him is the final uphill 2 mile finish, irrepective as to whether the rest of the race is flat or not.

Either way trying to draw conclusions based on what the pros ride is fairly pointless for us. We've got one setup to play with, the pro's have a setup per stage and per race strategy.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

Stueys wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:56 am
The Specialized guys summed it up on a podcast well. The bikes performance is close enough that the pros chose their bikes based on the key moments in the stage that they are targetting, not whether the overall stage is flat, lumpy, etc, etc. If Sagan is targetting a sprint finish, he'll probably go full on aero as he wants every advantage in that final 400m; likewise a climber might be targetting a stage win on a hill top finish, he'll probably go climbing bike as the key moment of the race for him is the final uphill 2 mile finish, irrepective as to whether the rest of the race is flat or not.

Either way trying to draw conclusions based on what the pros ride is fairly pointless for us. We've got one setup to play with, the pro's have a setup per stage and per race strategy.

It was the TrainerRoad podcast, which is excellent.

However the route profile below was the Sunday ToC stage. The biggest "climb" is 175ft over 20mi. When stages are pan flat like this, the key moment is obviously the sprint or the formation of a serious breakaway. Now it really doesn't matter all that much for Richie since he's not either of those phenotypes, but if he were really min-maxing his kJ expenditure, chronic fatigue load or ending up in an unlikely break (like a big crash causing a split,) then he should use the Madone for totally flat stages. I still suspect the biggest reason he was on the Emonda is limited transport at satellite stage races such as the Tour of California. It's entirely possible his Madones are sitting in the Trek-Segafredo service course.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Reading of the gains of aero VS light weight, if i would believe the propaganda, i would assume the aero bike would ruin the light weight bikes.
It surely would be interesting to try S5 vs Ax Vial EVO.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

robeambro
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by robeambro

wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:21 pm
Reading of the gains of aero VS light weight, if i would believe the propaganda, i would assume the aero bike would ruin the light weight bikes.
Pure 100% light-weight bikes with no aero features at all, yes. If one looks at wind tunnel testing, but even velodrome tests from Cycling Weekly on YouTube (there's a series of quite interesting videos with the WattShop guys.. And Dan Bigham knows much more about aero than the average Joe) indicate that those bikes pay a hefty price in performance when it comes to aerodynamics.

Bikes like the R5/Ultimate/Tarmac/V2R/New Izalco Max/etc bridge a very good part of that gap, hence I'm here on this crusade saying that aero frames aren't always the best.

However, bikes like the SS Evo (and probably the Ax that you mention) or Emonda pay a much higher penalty, not those ~10w we were mentioning before..

CAAD8FRED
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by CAAD8FRED

Does anyone know how the Izalco Max performs

AJS914
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by AJS914

robeambro wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:27 am
I'm not saying aero frames aren't good for sprinting, just that since it's a very short-timed event, the difference they make is often overshadowed by much other important factors. Unlike in crits, where arguably you gain for hours an aero benefit.
Aero benefits are not overshadowed. Aero benefits are always available. I just don't get the constant minimizing of aero benefits.

From the System Six white paper:
Consider the final kick with
the final 200m covered at an average speed of 60 km/h.
For a typical rider that 12s effort would require an average
of 1000W. Over this final kick the SystemSix would achieve
a 2.1 km/h top speed and reach the line 0.4 sec ahead of
the modern race bike. That doesn’t sound like a big margin,
but at 60km/h that equates to 7.2m, or four bike lengths.
https://www.cannondale.com/~/media/File ... epaper.pdf

If you don't believe their marketing numbers then go plug in your own numbers in the analytical cycling site.

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kgt
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by kgt

Can we all use our common sense, please, and not believe whatever some marketing departments want us to believe?
In every single white paper the best bike is the one that the editors of the white paper manufacture. Can we just ignore those 'scientific' white papers alltogether?

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guyc
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by guyc

AJS914 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm

Consider the final kick with
the final 200m covered at an average speed of 60 km/h.
For a typical rider that 12s effort would require an average
of 1000W. Over this final kick the SystemSix would achieve
a 2.1 km/h top speed and reach the line 0.4 sec ahead of
the modern race bike. That doesn’t sound like a big margin,
but at 60km/h that equates to 7.2m, or four bike lengths.

That's all great, but it bears absolutely zero relation to the riding I do.

by Weenie


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