*Tour Aero Bike Test 2019*

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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TiCass
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:13 pm

by TiCass

ryanw wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:56 pm
All tested at 45kph on Zipp 404s:

2019 Cannondale SystemSix Disc - 203w
2016 Trek Madone - 204w
2016 Specialized Venge ViAS - 204w
2016 Cervelo S5 - 205w
2016 Felt AR FRD - 205w
2019 Cervelo S5 Disc - 206w
2016 Canyon Aeroad - 208w
2019 Specialized Venge Disc - 208w
2016 Giant Propel Advanced SL - 210w
2016 Scott Foil Premium - 211w
2016 BMC Time Machine - 211w
2016 Look 795 - 212w
2019 Trek Madone Disc - 212w
2019 Ridley Noah Fast Disc - 213w
You sure about these numbers? All 2019 numbers appears to be the same as serie... so!?

by Weenie


mag
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm

by mag

F45 wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:07 am
lol, for Reifen they give the German brand 1.0 and everyone else is worse.
I've seen this numerous times, German mags favor German brands, US mags favor US brands... Nothing new unfortunately. I therefore take those subjective ratings with a (very big) grain of salt. Only the actually measured data are of some value.

As for the aero data - does anyone who reads those articles thoroughly know how do they account for various frame geometries? For example the 2016 Madone is lower than the 2019 one, thus making a direct comparison more complicated. And that's just those 2 frames...

AJS914
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I wish they would throw in something like an Emonda and a C64 so one could see how much faster an aero bike is in the same table.

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VTR1000SP2
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm

by VTR1000SP2

AJS914 wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:22 am
I wish they would throw in something like an Emonda and a C64 so one could see how much faster an aero bike is in the same table.
They did but that's not what this discussion is about really. Here's that link FYI - https://www.tour-magazin.de/uploads/tx_ ... 5ab73.jpeg

spartan
Posts: 1447
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

we need to start a kickstart campaign for hambini to do some real world aero bike testing LOL
Current Rides:

2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Bora Di2 9150
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7

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VTR1000SP2
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm

by VTR1000SP2

I typed out the S5 summary into Google translate as I was curious about what they said:

With the third generation of the s5, Cervelo takes system integration to a new level. From the front the bike looks extremely clean. The fork sits in front of the head tube and enters the frame with a positive fit. The connection to the handlebar bracket produces a V-shaped stem, which is available in six lengths. Behind the head tube many details are reminiscent of the old S5. The characteristic shape of the seat ear was preserved, including the steep aerostrip and the recess for the front wheel in the down tube. Also, the bottle holder can be mounted on the down tube again in two positions. In the Aero rating, the S5 occupies second place with 206 watts at 45km / h behind the SystemSix. Faster Zipp 404 instead of the standard DT wheels save another three watts. This gives the bike the aerodynamic level of SystemSix. 7.4 kilo is the weight of many professional racers with disc brakes. Very high stiffness values ​​and the stiff handlebar predestine the S5 for Sprinter. The spring comfort at the saddle is barely detectable like with the old model. The comparatively easy integration of the brake lines deserves praise. Quick-release pegs allow for quick wheel changes. A variant with rim brakes does not exist.

spdntrxi
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Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

ryanw wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:29 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:25 pm
Cdale also uses 23c tires.. so no ballon effect on leading edge... everyone else uses 25+
All tests are on Zipp 404s with same tyres to make it fair.

2019 Cervelo S5 Disc was 3w SLOWER with its standard DT Swiss 50mm wheels.
if we take the latest translation from the S5 review... that appears not to be the case.. they mention another 3 watts for the S5 which brings it to 203 (same as System6).. so the 206w was with Swiss wheels which can also possilbly mean System6 test with 203 was done with knot64 ? Who knows really and I've never been a fan of their testing to begin with.
2019 BMC TM01 Road UCI config 7.36kg

TiCass
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:13 pm

by TiCass

spdntrxi wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:23 am
ryanw wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:29 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:25 pm
Cdale also uses 23c tires.. so no ballon effect on leading edge... everyone else uses 25+
All tests are on Zipp 404s with same tyres to make it fair.

2019 Cervelo S5 Disc was 3w SLOWER with its standard DT Swiss 50mm wheels.
if we take the latest translation from the S5 review... that appears not to be the case.. they mention another 3 watts for the S5 which brings it to 203 (same as System6).. so the 206w was with Swiss wheels which can also possilbly mean System6 test with 203 was done with knot64 ? Who knows really and I've never been a fan of their testing to begin with.
That makes much more sense now.
I wonder why they didn't used the S5 DI2 with Enve 5.6. Probably more aero.

spartan
Posts: 1447
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:52 am

by spartan

excellent can you translate the madone summary.

VTR1000SP2 wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:15 am
I typed out the S5 summary into Google translate as I was curious about what they said:

With the third generation of the s5, Cervelo takes system integration to a new level. From the front the bike looks extremely clean. The fork sits in front of the head tube and enters the frame with a positive fit. The connection to the handlebar bracket produces a V-shaped stem, which is available in six lengths. Behind the head tube many details are reminiscent of the old S5. The characteristic shape of the seat ear was preserved, including the steep aerostrip and the recess for the front wheel in the down tube. Also, the bottle holder can be mounted on the down tube again in two positions. In the Aero rating, the S5 occupies second place with 206 watts at 45km / h behind the SystemSix. Faster Zipp 404 instead of the standard DT wheels save another three watts. This gives the bike the aerodynamic level of SystemSix. 7.4 kilo is the weight of many professional racers with disc brakes. Very high stiffness values ​​and the stiff handlebar predestine the S5 for Sprinter. The spring comfort at the saddle is barely detectable like with the old model. The comparatively easy integration of the brake lines deserves praise. Quick-release pegs allow for quick wheel changes. A variant with rim brakes does not exist.
Current Rides:

2019 S-Works Tarmac SL6 Bora Di2 9150
ex 2018 Trek Madone SLR Disc
ex 2016 Giant TCRAdvanced Sl
ex 2012 Trek Madone7

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VTR1000SP2
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm

by VTR1000SP2

spartan wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:46 am
excellent can you translate the madone summary.
I just did but I don't think I'm going to have any more time tonight to keep going. Typing this out manually is a bit of a pain but alas, my thirst for knowledge must be quenched.

The new Madone is not faster than its predecessor, which sets its standard. The Aero value of 212 watts could even be interpreted as a step backwards. But according to Trek, the new Madone was not about making the bike faster. Rather, the bike should be better overall. Among other things, the integrated Isospeed suspension was redesigned. Instead, as before in the seat tube, the leaf spring, which separates the seat post from the frame, is now supported in the top tube. The spring rate is adjustable, with the wheel springing better even in the hardest mode than many endurance bikes. Instead of being in two as before, the Madone will in future have only one geometry variant. Many customers found the option more confusing than helpful. The new H1.5 geometry lies between the previous H1 and H2 variants and positions the handlebar slightly higher than the old H1 model. The sitting position is still race-oriented. The road test makes it clear: As before, no bike dominates the balancing act between speed and comfort as well as the Madone. The handlebars, where the stem and the hangars were separated again, are comfortable. Good news for disc skeptics: there is also a variant with rim brakes.

chiumomo
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 1:38 pm

by chiumomo

VTR1000SP2 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:28 pm
CAAD8FRED wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:56 pm
Wonder why the CDale BB did so bad considering CDale said they hit their goal for it?
It did badly? Looks to be very stiff at 101Nm, bested by the S5 but with the stiffest Headtube and fairly competitive seatpost flex.
What? Aren't we suppose to look at tretlagersteifigkeit for bb stiffness? I think lenkkopfsteifigkeit is headtube stiffness.

cro2
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:39 am

by cro2

chiumomo wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:05 am
What? Aren't we suppose to look at tretlagersteifigkeit for bb stiffness? I think lenkkopfsteifigkeit is headtube stiffness.
That's right.
As for the test result - does anyone know if the test procedure was the same as last year? Also it's a bit disappointing that they do not publish accuracies, which also makes comparisons between bikes vague at best.

DartanianX
Posts: 614
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:00 am

by DartanianX

Makes the choice of getting a ViAS vs the new Venge even sweeter.


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TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

TiCass wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:30 am

That makes much more sense now.
I wonder why they didn't used the S5 DI2 with Enve 5.6. Probably more aero.

I wouldn’t bet on the 5.6s being more aero than 404 FCs. Remember that 404s are 58mm deep while 5.6s are just 54/63mm deep. Front wheel depth has a much greater influence on aerodynamics than rear wheel depth.

The SystemSix with 23mm tires and 64mm rims definitely has the tire/wheel combination to win aero tests. Perhaps they have the best bar/stem solution too.

by Weenie


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ryanw
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Location: London

by ryanw

spdntrxi wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:23 am
ryanw wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:29 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:25 pm
Cdale also uses 23c tires.. so no ballon effect on leading edge... everyone else uses 25+
All tests are on Zipp 404s with same tyres to make it fair.

2019 Cervelo S5 Disc was 3w SLOWER with its standard DT Swiss 50mm wheels.
if we take the latest translation from the S5 review... that appears not to be the case.. they mention another 3 watts for the S5 which brings it to 203 (same as System6).. so the 206w was with Swiss wheels which can also possilbly mean System6 test with 203 was done with knot64 ? Who knows really and I've never been a fan of their testing to begin with.

Are your eyes working today?

Faster Zipp 404 instead of the standard DT wheels save another three watts.

The bike was tested on 404s @ 206w. They tested it on the shallower DT Swiss wheels and it was 3w slower, 209w.
Allez Sprint Disc - 7.60kg
SL7 S-Works - 6.73kg
www.rhinosworkshop.co.uk
IG: RhinosWorkshop

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