*Tour Aero Bike Tests*

[FlatlandClimber]

I'm not sure Tour should equalize the wheels, much less the cockpits. This isn't a frame test, it's a bike test. An aero bike sold with deep wheels and aero/integrated cockpit, should be faster than an all around bike sold with shallow wheels and round bars.

Not sure about that...
Trek Emonda SLR9 can be speced with 37, 51 and 62mm deep wheels right from the factory.
I have not bought a bike to date, where I couldn't freely choose wheels and tires etc.

I'm just saying that there are many things that determine how a bike rides, that can be freely chosen and I would really be surprised if many people buy a $15k Emonda or Madone and ride it with the mediocre (the most positive word I could find) Bontrager tires

[rides4beer]

Nevermind situations where normalization wouldn’t be possible, or would severely penalize the bike being tested. The Cervelo S5 and Simplon come to mind.

Definitely, these bikes are being designed as a system to work together, which is part of the reason they keep getting faster.

[FlatlandClimber]

Nevermind situations where normalization wouldn’t be possible, or would severely penalize the bike being tested. The Cervelo S5 and Simplon come to mind.

Definitely, these bikes are being designed as a system to work together, which is part of the reason they keep getting faster.

I agree for handlebars, seat post and maybe even bottle/ spares...
However, the Cerverlo S5 was launched with 2 different wheels depending on the groupset and the same for the Aeroad CFR.
Therefore, I'd argue that standardized wheels might still be sensible.

[BigBoyND]

Normalizing handlebars would be tough.

But it would be cool to see a third test run with Zipp 404 and the handlebar/stem simply removed. Then we can really get frame aero isolated.

For those saying wheels shouldn't be normalized: ignoring that bikes come in multiple specs, isn't that also one of the most common upgrades? I think it's a relevant data point for many riders. And since they aren't eliminating the stock data, everyone should be happy.

[wheelsONfire]

Rims (wheels) and fork is a dual/ combined combo for aero.

[robeambro]

I'm not sure Tour should equalize the wheels, much less the cockpits. This isn't a frame test, it's a bike test. An aero bike sold with deep wheels and aero/integrated cockpit, should be faster than an all around bike sold with shallow wheels and round bars.

They shouldn't equalise the wheels, but it's important that we as readers always put things into perspective. I read somebody saying that 'Bianchi has failed', which to be frank is a ridiculous statement and clarifies that there's a number of people who don't understand the results (for example, they didn't notice that Bianchi was stupid enough to send a 57mm frame which likely has a much higher stack than most of the other bikes, and that's some watts lost before you even start) and/or give way too much importance to them.

Everyone is free to making their own decisions, but translating both the results of Tour's tests and their magnitude to the road is a little naive.

[Lina]

I'm not sure Tour should equalize the wheels, much less the cockpits. This isn't a frame test, it's a bike test. An aero bike sold with deep wheels and aero/integrated cockpit, should be faster than an all around bike sold with shallow wheels and round bars.

They shouldn't equalise the wheels, but it's important that we as readers always put things into perspective. I read somebody saying that 'Bianchi has failed', which to be frank is a ridiculous statement and clarifies that there's a number of people who don't understand the results (for example, they didn't notice that Bianchi was stupid enough to send a 57mm frame which likely has a much higher stack than most of the other bikes, and that's some watts lost before you even start) and/or give way too much importance to them.

Everyone is free to making their own decisions, but translating both the results of Tour's tests and their magnitude to the road is a little naive.

It takes literally under a minute to check that the 57 Bianchi has a stack 1 mm higher than 56 Tarmac. And the Dogma F in size 55 has higher stack than either one while still having the best aero numbers.

[AJS914]

A friend has the Specialissima and it's gorgeous.

How do you translate the watts in the charts. Is it as simple as it takes 26 more watts to pedal the Specialissima over the Dogma at a certain speed?

[FlatlandClimber]

A friend has the Specialissima and it's gorgeous.

How do you translate the watts in the charts. Is it as simple as it takes 26 more watts to pedal the Specialissima over the Dogma at a certain speed?

The speed is 45kph. And this is only aero, not rolling resistance or chain friction or anything.

Regarding stack. Sometimes the bikes need mandatory spacers that's are not in the stack, sometimes it is part of stack.
Also, some bikes are tested with more spacers, wider bars or wrapped tops vs non wrapped tops.
There are a few things to consider that make these 20W difference, that are not "better frame".

[AJS914]

The speed is 45kph. And this is only aero, not rolling resistance or chain friction or anything.

Still, does it translate to needing 26 more watts as measured by your crank based power meter to go the same speed on the slower bike?

[spartacus]

The speed is 45kph. And this is only aero, not rolling resistance or chain friction or anything.

Still, does it translate to needing 26 more watts as measured by your crank based power meter to go the same speed on the slower bike?

That's the idea yes. Whether that translates to real world wind conditions with a rider on them is the question, but it certainly makes some difference.

[FlatlandClimber]

Yeah, the difference should be about the same. The dummy with an upper body will likely require a good 400W to go at that speed, but the idea is that you could adjust each bike to make your Position the same, so the difference should still be 26W (for example 400W on Dogma F v 426W on Bianchi)

[cajer]

A friend has the Specialissima and it's gorgeous.

How do you translate the watts in the charts. Is it as simple as it takes 26 more watts to pedal the Specialissima over the Dogma at a certain speed?

The speed is 45kph. And this is only aero, not rolling resistance or chain friction or anything.

Regarding stack. Sometimes the bikes need mandatory spacers that's are not in the stack, sometimes it is part of stack.
Also, some bikes are tested with more spacers, wider bars or wrapped tops vs non wrapped tops.
There are a few things to consider that make these 20W difference, that are not "better frame".

It doesn't really matter if the frame by itself is faster, most bikes these days are designed with a specific handle bar in mind. If a frame was specifically designed and stated to work best with a certain wheel set, then there could be reason to use a different wheel meet for that bike. Seeing as that isn't the case the wheels should be standardized.

Additionally if the bike has fully internal routing, cables should not be mounted, but should be included in bikes without fully integrated cabling. Regarding bar tape, a standard bar tape should be choosen and be wrapped to just past the hoods or to the transition point on the bars if they have a step for bar tape. The lowest stack height that all the bikes can hit should be chosen. I also feel that two bottles with a standardized cage and bottle should be used as most people ride with two bottles. A the same drive train and tires should also be installed with an appropriate tire width based on whatever the standard wheel set is.

Either way the next tour aero bike test should be interesting. We might have a new madone, venge, s5 out by then along either the new ribble bike, the simplson, the felt ar, the orca aero

[Nickldn]

Always interesting to see if the stock wheels/tyres are better, or worse than the Zipp 404.

Makes it easier to make a decision if it's worth swapping out the stock wheels for aftermarket wheels from Zipp, or one of its brethren.

Bars/stems not so much, as many are so integrated with the frame, along with the internal cables. It's quite hard to swap to aftermarket bars anyway on most aero bikes now.

So to me the Tour aero testing is well judged and no I would not swap to a full mannequin. It's just a shame there are not more aero tests available, to find out if any of the bikes achieve wildly different results compared to peers.

[AJS914]

Does Tour test a "regular" non-aero bike in any of these tests so you can compare? I'd love to know how many watts I'm giving up on my C59 or C40 assuming they had the 404 wheels.