Custom titanium build...

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
Berzin1
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:35 pm

by Berzin1

I could go with the WR -17 stem, but the handlebars won't work. I want to, if poossible, have uniformity with the bars, stem, and seatpost.

A couple more questions-

1) What type of bottom bracket would I need for a 68 English threaded? Could I use a Chirs King Threadfit 24? I'm running Shimano 7800 (I'll upgrade the gruppo at a later date).

2) The Headtube Design is Tapered/Integrated, and the recommended headset according to Lynskey is a Cane Creek IS 42/52. What would the equivalent for a Chris King?

3) What size fork would I need? I'm clueless when it comes to this. Would a 1 and 1/8th work, or do I need a different measurement?

by Weenie


rollinslow
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am

by rollinslow

Wookski wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:56 am
rollinslow wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:02 am
Seedster wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:03 am
It seems like Enve is the go to choice for custom titanium frame builders and I really don't understand why. Could be the whole American builder ethos, but I would certainly give WR and 3T a serious look.
I would argue that most people buying custom Ti frames want only the best. When it comes to carbon components I subjectively think Enve is the best. Never had an issue. However, given that Mavic is now the owner it will be interesting to see if quality dips.
Enve is not the best- it’s simply the most recognised mainstream “high end” brand. Bike builders like enve because of the range of different rakes available, supply is never an issue and the brand is well known. Compare the 2.0 to the WR FK1: FK1 is a much better product- in performance, weight and aesthetics. In fact, all of WR’s carbon components are much nicer than enve.
I see and appreciate your point but it's stil just subjective. I'll prefer the tried and true Enve components. Especially when I'm going 50mph down a mountain. No data to support my claims.

Imaking20
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

Wookski wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:56 am
rollinslow wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:02 am
Seedster wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:03 am
It seems like Enve is the go to choice for custom titanium frame builders and I really don't understand why. Could be the whole American builder ethos, but I would certainly give WR and 3T a serious look.
I would argue that most people buying custom Ti frames want only the best. When it comes to carbon components I subjectively think Enve is the best. Never had an issue. However, given that Mavic is now the owner it will be interesting to see if quality dips.
Enve is not the best- it’s simply the most recognised mainstream “high end” brand. Bike builders like enve because of the range of different rakes available, supply is never an issue and the brand is well known. Compare the 2.0 to the WR FK1: FK1 is a much better product- in performance, weight and aesthetics. In fact, all of WR’s carbon components are much nicer than enve.
Also WAY more expensive - especially because there isn't much used inventory. I'd definitely like to try more WR parts, but they're a bit cost prohibitive - especially if you're looking at the cost delta for weight savings (which isn't a great ratio)
Current:
Wilier Wonka

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The Dentist | The Bucket List | Specialissima | Evo | T2 | Blue | Project C6.0 | Felt AR FRD | Colnago C59 NERO | 2014 S-Works Tarmac | S-Works Venge | Wilier Cento Uno SL | Tarmac SL2

glepore
Posts: 1201
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

Geez, I'd go with a Kalloy -17 stem. Lighter, cheaper by miles, and plenty stout.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

none
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:29 pm

by none

I've been riding ti frames since 1996.
Ibis Ti Road was my first titanium frame, ridden for about 6 years.
During that 6 years a DBR Sandvik road was next, but only for a few months.
Then betweeen 2001 to 2004, a Merlin XLM compact.
Been riding a Litespeed Ultimate since 2004 until now, still my go-to road bike after about 30k miles ridden.
Honestly, if your physique is not extreme, there really isn't much need for custom titanium frame to be made to your spec.
The cost savings of going to a sized frame can get your a very nice set of wheels or some other costly components.
The need for micro-adjustments can likely be accomplished with different stems, seatposts, handlebars, etc..
If you've never ridden a ti frame for significant amount of time before, I'd advise against getting a custom, made-to-measure ti frame as your first experience.
Cheap ti frame with decent ride quality can easily be found, decked out with highend components and wheels, you can easily have a very high performance bike that's far less expensive than a custom ti frame which would last longer than you can ride it.
Last edited by none on Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

biwa
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

Wookski wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:12 am
Enve forks are solid but nothing special. WR compositi make beautiful slender carbon forks in 3K (gloss or matte), otherwise the 3T Rigida LTD is the weightweenies choice (< 300g uncut). Extralite make wonderful headsets and have a very easy to use website to determine diameter etc.
Also thinking to get a new fork for my Ti bike. Was looking at Enve, how does it compare to 3T Rigida LTD? Any other recommendation for robust and fairly lightweight fork for 1 1/8 HT. Thanks.

Imaking20
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

Straight or tapered? I think the Enve is the most boring aesthetically. 3T Rigida LTD I think looks a lot more interesting and is a whole lot lighter than Enve 2.0. If your fork is straight 1'1/8 though, the Rigida is not an option. I'd look at a Columbus Futura SL in that case - also a very nice looking fork and close to the weight of the Rigida LTD. And quite reasonably priced.

For what it's worth, having ridden Enve 2.0, Rigida LTD, and Columbus Futura all within the span of a few months - on the same frame no less - I don't believe there's any noticeable performance trait among them. They all hold the wheel where it's supposed to be.
Current:
Wilier Wonka

Retired:
The Dentist | The Bucket List | Specialissima | Evo | T2 | Blue | Project C6.0 | Felt AR FRD | Colnago C59 NERO | 2014 S-Works Tarmac | S-Works Venge | Wilier Cento Uno SL | Tarmac SL2

biwa
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

Imaking20 wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:49 pm
Straight or tapered? I think the Enve is the most boring aesthetically. 3T Rigida LTD I think looks a lot more interesting and is a whole lot lighter than Enve 2.0. If your fork is straight 1'1/8 though, the Rigida is not an option. I'd look at a Columbus Futura SL in that case - also a very nice looking fork and close to the weight of the Rigida LTD. And quite reasonably priced.

For what it's worth, having ridden Enve 2.0, Rigida LTD, and Columbus Futura all within the span of a few months - on the same frame no less - I don't believe there's any noticeable performance trait among them. They all hold the wheel where it's supposed to be.
Straight. Will look into Columbus Futura SL. Thanks!

KarlC
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:08 am
Location: San Diego Ca USA

by KarlC

The EDGE / ENVE 1.0 is pretty light and fits 28s with no issues if thats what your looking for.

Image

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 2390
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Is that a sanded Enve fork? I didn't think the Enve is that light in stock form. Most 28's ballon to 30mm or more. Can the Enve handle a 30mm actual width with enough clearance?

Imaking20
Posts: 1891
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am

by Imaking20

Get a mountain bike



And yeah, Enve 1.0 is light - if you can find one.
Current:
Wilier Wonka

Retired:
The Dentist | The Bucket List | Specialissima | Evo | T2 | Blue | Project C6.0 | Felt AR FRD | Colnago C59 NERO | 2014 S-Works Tarmac | S-Works Venge | Wilier Cento Uno SL | Tarmac SL2

Wookski
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

rollinslow wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:22 pm

I see and appreciate your point but it's stil just subjective. I'll prefer the tried and true Enve components. Especially when I'm going 50mph down a mountain. No data to support my claims.
WR were making carbon components well before Enve ever existed. I have WR and Enve 1.0 and 2.0 forks- all perform very well at over 50mph and yes, entirely subjective.

Wookski
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

KarlC wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:45 am
The EDGE / ENVE 1.0 is pretty light and fits 28s with no issues if thats what your looking for.

Image
The 1.0 is a wonderful weight but sadly discontinued in favour of the thicker steerer of the 2.0.

Wookski
Posts: 1090
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

Imaking20 wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:06 am
Get a mountain bike
^ this

Berzin1
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:35 pm

by Berzin1

none wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 pm
Honestly, if your physique is not extreme, there really isn't much need for custom titanium frame to be made to your spec.
One's physique doesn't have to be out of the ordinary to warrant custom geometry. My preference is sitting a little further back than what what off-the-rack frames offer.

Back in the days 73 degree seat tube angles were quite the norm. Now I see 73.5 to 74 along with slacker head tube angles, the exact opposite of what I feel is best for me. How did I come to this? By riding bikes from Cannondale, Litespeed, Calfee, Bianchi, and a few others I don't remember. I've ridden (extensively) carbon, aluminum, and titanium. The feel of each material took a back seat to the geometry. And I also gathered a bit of wisdom from George Dyer of Cyfac as we worked through the goemetry of a custom aluminum frame. It rode nothing like the Cannondale, which had steeper head/seat tube angles and a higher bottom bracket. The changes we decided on made a world of diference.

Given all that, I want my frame to reflect my preferences, which along with geometry include no sloping top tube, which is somethng I absolutely loathe.
none wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 pm
The cost savings of going to a sized frame can get your a very nice set of wheels or some other costly components.
I already have two pairs of very nice wheels (2019 Zipp Firecrest 404 clinchers, and a pair of Lightweight Millenstein clinchers) and a few others that would be considered "old school" (or just plain old) that are in beautiful condition, with plenty of miles left in them, along with a Shimano gruppo waiting for the frame to come in. The seatpost, stem, headset and fork are the only things left to buy, but there is no rush for the moment, as the frame won't be ready for about 6 weeks.

none wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 pm
The need for micro-adjustments can likely be accomplished with different stems, seatposts, handlebars, etc..
Seatpost and stem won't be a problem. The handlebars are presenting the biggest challenge because I haven't found one with a flat top, anatomic bend like the Ovsl Concepts R910, which is no longr being produced.

Another thing-my experience in the over 20 years of riding is, (with a hiatus here in there) if you don't have someone knowledgable helping you with the measurements and such, you cannot leave it to your local lbs. Aside from Cyfac, I've never had anyone at a bike shop help with getting properly set up. So I foolishly went from frame to frame looking for a fit that did not exist. And if I'm paying good money, that is the least these lbs employees could have helped me with. When I noticed that this was something that wasn't going to change anytime soon, I decided on a custom Cyfac. No more issues after that. The only difference between the Cyfac and the Lynskey is the Lynskey will be 2 cm smaller in erms of standover height and headtube, and 1 cm shorter on the top tube. The differences can be made up with a longer stem and seatpost no problem.

Ever notice how pro racers have their seats slammed all the way to the back? I want a bit more balance, where my seat can be centered. So now I have the option of being able to move the seat a bit forward or backward. If you are riding with your seat slammed forward or backwards due to the frames' geometry, you have no choice.

none wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 pm
If you've never ridden a ti frame for significant amount of time before, I'd advise against getting a custom, made-to-measure ti frame as your first experience.
I've ridden (and loved) three titanium frame-a Litespeed Ultimate, a Litespeed Vortex, and a Bianchi. The Vortex didn't belong to me. My friend was gracious to leave it for me to use whenever he left town for business, which was always weeks at a time. Before that it was a Bianchi Ti Megatube, which was harsher than my Cannondale for some reason. I think it was the steel fork.
none wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:55 pm
Cheap ti frame with decent ride quality can easily be found, decked out with highend components and wheels, you can easily have a very high performance bike that's far less expensive than a custom ti frame which would last longer than you can ride it.
The Lynskey ti frame that I ordered, even with custom geometry, is just a little more than half the price of a Pinarello Dogma frame. For a frame that will last a lifetime, I don't think I did too badly on the price point. And when I get through with it (painted frame and fork, some painting of the seatpost and stem, matching color handlebar tape) I can honestly say that it will be a head turner, unique enough to stand out in a crowd and best of all, it will fit me just like I need it to.

by Weenie


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