Ultrasonic cleaners, how good do they clean chain internals?

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.
mattr
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by mattr

:D We used to pour it back into my mates dads can of two stroke fuel......... Never seemed to do the lawnmower any harm.

by Weenie


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C36
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by C36

eric01 wrote:Slightly off topic... decades ago I used to put my chain in an old water bottle, pour some gasoline in there and shake it. Got my chain spotless. Now older and wiser I know how much of an environmental disaster this is...
As long as you don’t junk the diesel and return it to a gas station I do t see any problem.
What you do is basically what I used to do but still require 3 baths if we want it to be 100% clean (and then use solvent to remove the greasy part of diesel). It’s perfectly doable just that I ran more and more out of time to do it properly.


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moyboy
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by moyboy

Awesome! you'd only have to change the fuel filter... if it even had one.
mattr wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:37 pm
:D We used to pour it back into my mates dads can of two stroke fuel......... Never seemed to do the lawnmower any harm.

AJS914
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by AJS914

dgasmd wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:15 am
For the love of whatever is sacred to you, just buy a damn new chain!!!!
Yes, exactly. I'd rather buy a new $30 chain every 2000-3000 miles than do these cleaning regimens.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Hmmm... now there’s a thought. :)
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C36
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by C36

AJS914 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:17 pm
dgasmd wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:15 am
For the love of whatever is sacred to you, just buy a damn new chain!!!!
Yes, exactly. I'd rather buy a new $30 chain every 2000-3000 miles than do these cleaning regimens.
hum cleaning a chain each 2000 miles? do you realize that the lubricant that came on the chain is not really for utilization but for chain protection then you should clean it before installing? even without rain rides, I don't think people here do a lot more than 600km in between lubrications (and lubrication over a dirt just marginally reduce wear).
Don't get me wrong the chain will work but you just don't get all the smoothness or performance you could expext from it.

TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

AJS914 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:17 pm

Yes, exactly. I'd rather buy a new $30 chain every 2000-3000 miles than do these cleaning regimens.

I only clean the chain of its factory protectant once so that I can start chain waxing them ... or if I want to test a different lube on a non-waxed chain. Also my chains last somewhere >7000mi before they reach 0.5%.

mattr
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by mattr

moyboy wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:57 pm
Awesome! you'd only have to change the fuel filter... if it even had one.
it didn't, must have been 20+ years old then. His dad was a gardener, so daily use for 9 months of the year.

I reckon the only way we'd have damaged it is it we'd left a length of chain in there...... (His dad used to add all his waste oil to the petrol to save going to the tip)

jfranci3
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by jfranci3

I use the cheap one you have. Buy one with heat in my opinion. Heat makes a huge difference in performance. You can just boil water on the stove though. I wouldn't worry about keeping the unit clean, they have stainless steel tubs, which are easy to clean.

On the power, the power doesn't make a difference. The better units have variable frequencies and more heating power. You just need a certain amount of ultrasonic watts per volume of water, which they all have. Buy one big enough for your cassette, so you're looking at a 3L unit.

hum cleaning a chain each 2000 miles? do you realize that the lubricant that came on the chain is not really for utilization but for chain protection then you should clean it before installing? even without rain rides, I don't think people here do a lot more than 600km in between lubrications (and lubrication over a dirt just marginally reduce wear).
Don't get me wrong the chain will work but you just don't get all the smoothness or performance you could expext from it.
The lube that comes on the chain should stay on the chain. It's better than any lube you can apply in your home. I don't know about 2k miles, but it's fine for 600 miles on dry roads before you need to touch it.

TurboKoo
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by TurboKoo

Couldn’t agree more on the factory lube.
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

jfranci3 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:16 pm

The lube that comes on the chain should stay on the chain. It's better than any lube you can apply in your home. I don't know about 2k miles, but it's fine for 600 miles on dry roads before you need to touch it.

This is essentially an old wives' tale continually circulated because it's mentioned on Sheldon Brown's website. Better? At what?

The muck that comes on a factory new chain is very thick, gummy and provided in excess. It's mostly there to protect the chain from rusting in case of long-term storage before sale. It functions OK as a general purpose lubricant...so does light grease and motor oil, but it's going to sap a couple of watts and annoy the wattage weenies. It's also so gluey that it will pick up sand, dirt and other fine/hard particles that will accelerate wear on the chain itself and also your cogs, chainrings, pulley wheels, etc.

Sure, leave it on for your first few hundred miles, but before you start using your preferred chain lube, you are going to want to clean it all off. This is especially true for dry lubes because they need to adhere/bond to the surface of the chain. Wet lubes / oils will thin out the factory grease over time, which may or may not create a medium thickness sludgy mess at some point.

jfranci3
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by jfranci3

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:51 pm
jfranci3 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:16 pm

The lube that comes on the chain should stay on the chain. It's better than any lube you can apply in your home. I don't know about 2k miles, but it's fine for 600 miles on dry roads before you need to touch it.

This is essentially an old wives' tale continually circulated because it's mentioned on Sheldon Brown's website. Better? At what?




The muck that comes on a factory new chain is very thick, gummy and provided in excess. It's mostly there to protect the chain from rusting in case of long-term storage before sale. It functions OK as a general purpose lubricant...so does light grease and motor oil, but it's going to sap a couple of watts and annoy the wattage weenies. It's also so gluey that it will pick up sand, dirt and other fine/hard particles that will accelerate wear on the chain itself and also your cogs, chainrings, pulley wheels, etc.

Sure, leave it on for your first few hundred miles, but before you start using your preferred chain lube, you are going to want to clean it all off. This is especially true for dry lubes because they need to adhere/bond to the surface of the chain. Wet lubes / oils will thin out the factory grease over time, which may or may not create a medium thickness sludgy mess at some point.
https://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/ ... he-experts
https://bikerumor.com/2011/06/28/chainw ... h-shimano/
One thing they site is that the lube can be applied before assembly, allowing an even coating in the smaller places. Anything you do to clean the chain will likely leave water/solvent in those smaller spaces, which will bleed out forever. Another consideration, is that they can apply the lube with different solvents or without solvents which you might not be able to do on a commercial product.
THey can also mix lighter and heavier lubricants in a way you can't in a consumer product and apply it at a specific temperature. Thinner products aren't going to lube the pins very well nor get in the tighter spots, while heavier lubes won't get in the tight areas.

You're better off leaving it and adding your favorite goo than you are trying to relube it with whatever. One thing you can do with wax is to bring it up to a high temp, which will get rid of some of the solvents and water while thinning out the wax. I've only found wax to last very long. I use wax as a relube after the factory stuff gets nasty.

This puts the factory lube on par with other goos, save maybe a fresh wax - https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/sport/i ... ng-chains/ One thing pointed out by Mucoff is that this doesn't consider performance dropoff with heat.

One idea they had while look though this is to just clean the outside with a kitchen wipe, leaving the inside goo. I think you'd likely get a lot of lint in there though.

AJS914
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by AJS914

On my Campagnolo chains, I leave the factory lube and use the Rock N Roll Gold system. With Rock N Roll, I'll wipe off the sticky lube on the outer part of the chain and then go from there. I really like the Rock 'N Roll system of lube and wipe down, lube and wipe down, etc.

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mattyNor
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by mattyNor

For me ultrasonic cleaners are the best things since sliced bread. The trick I've found is to fill the bath with boiling water because the heater on most cheap cleaners is useless. I love them because I can strip the drivetrain, throw it in the cleaner, and by the time I'm done cleaning the frame and wheels my drivetrain is done and crystal clean.

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C36
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by C36

jfranci3 wrote:
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:51 pm
jfranci3 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:16 pm

The lube that comes on the chain should stay on the chain. It's better than any lube you can apply in your home. I don't know about 2k miles, but it's fine for 600 miles on dry roads before you need to touch it.

This is essentially an old wives' tale continually circulated because it's mentioned on Sheldon Brown's website. Better? At what?




The muck that comes on a factory new chain is very thick, gummy and provided in excess. It's mostly there to protect the chain from rusting in case of long-term storage before sale. It functions OK as a general purpose lubricant...so does light grease and motor oil, but it's going to sap a couple of watts and annoy the wattage weenies. It's also so gluey that it will pick up sand, dirt and other fine/hard particles that will accelerate wear on the chain itself and also your cogs, chainrings, pulley wheels, etc.

Sure, leave it on for your first few hundred miles, but before you start using your preferred chain lube, you are going to want to clean it all off. This is especially true for dry lubes because they need to adhere/bond to the surface of the chain. Wet lubes / oils will thin out the factory grease over time, which may or may not create a medium thickness sludgy mess at some point.
https://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/ ... he-experts
https://bikerumor.com/2011/06/28/chainw ... h-shimano/
One thing they site is that the lube can be applied before assembly, allowing an even coating in the smaller places. Anything you do to clean the chain will likely leave water/solvent in those smaller spaces, which will bleed out forever. Another consideration, is that they can apply the lube with different solvents or without solvents which you might not be able to do on a commercial product.
THey can also mix lighter and heavier lubricants in a way you can't in a consumer product and apply it at a specific temperature. Thinner products aren't going to lube the pins very well nor get in the tighter spots, while heavier lubes won't get in the tight areas.

You're better off leaving it and adding your favorite goo than you are trying to relube it with whatever. One thing you can do with wax is to bring it up to a high temp, which will get rid of some of the solvents and water while thinning out the wax. I've only found wax to last very long. I use wax as a relube after the factory stuff gets nasty.

This puts the factory lube on par with other goos, save maybe a fresh wax - https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/sport/i ... ng-chains/ One thing pointed out by Mucoff is that this doesn't consider performance dropoff with heat.

One idea they had while look though this is to just clean the outside with a kitchen wipe, leaving the inside goo. I think you'd likely get a lot of lint in there though.
Interesting read (and contradict what a shimano ProTour tech told me few years ago...) but I think it has to be put in perspective that those recommendations must be valid for “all”, the advanced user and the guy who bring his 10k$ bike to the LBS for a brake adjustment...
Is the factory lubricant covering 100% of the friction points: yes, since installed before assembly.
Is the factory lubricant the one providing the best performance: no, frictionfact (when we’re still independents) clearly showed it.
Is there a challenge to ensure all the friction points are lubricated, clearly yes: virtually impossible to ensure lubricant entered on the side plate and just have to rely on wettability of you lubricant. That’s where the hot wax has a benefit (totally surround the chain and extremely penetrating when hot)

There is a bit of a contradiction in manufacturers claims if it’s “so” difficult to lub a chain everywhere... how can you clean it?


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by Weenie


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