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Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:42 pm
by robertbb
Ok, scratch that, I just scrolled up and saw a front-on pic. They look long enough but that flare out seems unecessary... can you do anything about that?

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:13 am
by 3Pio
Miller wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:48 pm
3Pio wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:47 pm
Any other suggestions for worth considering chain catchers?
You could do worse than get Campag's own chain catcher. They've done two versions of this. The second one is better, FD-SR203, as it allows independent setting of front der position and chain catcher arm position.
Thanks Miller for ur suggestion.. Ill definetely consider it as option..
PokojniToza wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:42 pm
I seem to have the new Campag one. Does the trick. You can find it at our LBS (at least they used to stock it):)
Will check today :) Maybe espresso time together..
Calnago wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:05 pm
Definitely stick with the K-Edge or the newer Campy chaincatcher that Miller references. If you had EPS then the Campy one is better because it fits the funky anchor bolt on EPS, whereas the K-Edge one needs a bit of modification. There was a separate thread where we were talking about that, but no idea where it is. Doesn’t matter though. You’re on the right path to success.
Thanks Cal. I'll consider them both.. Since i dont plan to use EPS anytime soon, i'll chose the one which is cheaper/or easier to find it.. If they are similar price ,then will chose Campagnolo just for Logo Uniformity :)

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:13 am
by Weenie

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:23 am
by 3Pio
robertbb wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:42 pm
Ok, scratch that, I just scrolled up and saw a front-on pic. They look long enough but that flare out seems unecessary... can you do anything about that?

Yes.. Long enough :) I would even say that right deral cable (on the left side) is too long.. But i'll leave it that way, and shorten them up in the future.. To remove the flare maybe need to route them on front of the handlebar, and i prefer this way since more comfortable on the hoods (since no cable interfering my grip, even under the tape..)

But yes, maybe i could do something if i try a bit more optimal cable routing.. But for now i'll leave them this way and do the other adjustments/cable trimming after some riding...

Anyway, i just measure it full build including Garmin Mount, and Colnago bare tape (its not on the bar, but i put it on the bike just to add for total weight) and Vittoria Latex inner tubes, Conti 4Season 25mm tires and Favero Pedals..

Total weight in this configuration is 7150gm. Also Specialized Romin Evo Pro Saddle is at least 50 gm more then Selle Italia SLR Carbonio Flow i ussually use...

So this mean it's a bit lighter then C60 with same build (about 40-50 gm lighter).


This is the pic with shorten rear der. cable

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Now, time to put it on trainer for first test ride (seem that i'll wait for outside riding since there will be snow at least next 10 days... :( )

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:12 pm
by flying
Nice build & nice documentation 3Pio :thumbup:

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:33 pm
by 3Pio
flying wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:12 pm
Nice build & nice documentation 3Pio Image
Thanks @flying glad u like it :)

Now i'll continue having fun rebuilding my old friend: Colnago C60 which i have from August 2016 and have about 20500 km with this bike..

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So more similar details will come regarding this C60 and build around it..


BTW, while we talking about Chain Catchers, i checked with my LBS and they have on stock just Campgnolo SR003, which not provide separate adjustment from FD.

So will see what is easier to source it K-Edge Pro or Campagnolo SR203.

BTW, i also found this ChainCatcher:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fourier ... st=ae803_5

http://www.fouriers-bike.com/en/pro.php ... cid=65&f=2

For 13 EUR including shipping im really curious to try.

I had dilemma what meaning Oval vs Round versions, but i guess is regarding chainrings :) Oval or regular Round (if i dont have wrong logic about this)

Curious if someone allready tried this chain catcher because at least from the pics look like nice one as well and very cheap...

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:27 pm
by themidge
Calnago wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:05 pm
Definitely stick with the K-Edge or the newer Campy chaincatcher that Miller references. If you had EPS then the Campy one is better because it fits the funky anchor bolt on EPS, whereas the K-Edge one needs a bit of modification. There was a separate thread where we were talking about that, but no idea where it is. Doesn’t matter though. You’re on the right path to success.
Cal, you've probably answered this somewhere before but why do you use a chain catcher? I've never felt the need for one once the limit screws and cable tension are set alright on the FD and I am by no means a great mechanic :noidea: .

Great build 3Pio, very business-like. Looking forward to seeing the C60 built up again, the paint is awesome :thumbup: .

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:21 pm
by Calnago
themidge wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:27 pm
Cal, you've probably answered this somewhere before but why do you use a chain catcher? I've never felt the need for one once the limit screws and cable tension are set alright on the FD and I am by no means a great mechanic :noidea: .
You're right, I think I've answered this somewhere before but no idea where... but this time I have pictures! Ha. Little history... You may recall the infamous Shleck chain drop in Le Tour which saw Contador just say "Too bad, so sad" and go on ahead, leaving Schleck to faff about with his chain and lose his lead that day, it was quite a historic moment, later dubbed "chaingate" by some...
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Anyway, compact cranks were really gaining popularity around the same time, and there seemed to be a lot more chaindrops on organized rides etc. It was during one of these rides I seemed to be stopping an inordinate amount to help people with dropped chains. And on that day, I realized that every single chain drop was on a bike with compact crank. So I set out to figure out why, and what I came up with was that the physical distance the chain has to fall from the 50 to the 34 is greater than say, either the 53/39 or the 52/36 (which wasn't really around yet). That extra distance seems to create a greater chance that the chain will miss it's landing spot on the way down, and sometimes fall to the inside as a result. And voila... chain catchers quickly became a "thing" and worked well in this scenario. Legend has it that Schleck still has nightmares with a repetitious "If I'd only had a chaincatcher" mantra being played over and over in his head. I was still on 10sp stuff and early in 2010 built up a new bike with the new Campy 11sp bike for my girlfriend. I didn't put a chain catcher on her bike because, like you, I thought... who needs that if your bike is tuned properly. But she was forever dropping her chain it seemed. I was still on 10sp then, and with Campy 10sp it is super easy just to feather the chain back on without stopping on the rare occasion that you did drop a chain. But she just couldn't seem to ever be able to feather the chain back on when it dropped, so I became determined to teach her how to do this, as it seemed she was never going to learn how to shift properly so that it didn't drop in the first place. Anyway, on one fine weekend event she inevitably dropped her chain and I said, Ok... stop, and I got on her bike to show her how to feather her chain back on while riding. Well guess what... I couldn't do it. With the narrower flatter chain (pins not extending out so much), it would just not catch and I'd end up pedalling through air as the chain would just not catch until I coasted to a complete halt. I love this story, because she yelled at me "See! See! It's NOT MY FAULT". Now, normally at this point I'd just blame it on SRAM, but she was on Campy, so that option was not available. And so it began... I bought my first chain catcher and installed it on her bike.
So, what's that got to do with the reason I personally use a chain catcher... well... not much except it sets the stage a bit, since now I had learned that feathering the chain back on with the new chains was no longer an option. But the real impetus was when I started using SRM powermeters. The magnet they supply is encased in a plastic housing which fits underneath the bottom bracket between the BB shell and the cable guide...

Here's the SRM supplied magnet and holder...
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Here's a cable guide it would fit under...
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And here's how the two would fit together on the bike...
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I hated that option, since it meant that the cable guide was no longer resting solidly against the BB shell, and there was some give on either side which theoretically could affect shifting. So, when SRM and K-Edge got together and created a chaincatcher/magnet all in one, it was a no brainer for me to get one. Nothing stuck to the frame, the perfect magnet for SRM, and a really good chain catcher to boot in the even that I ever did drop a chain... an "ounce of prevention" if you will...
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So, there you have it, for me it's not even so much the chaincatcher part as having the SRM magnet placement like that, hidden and out of the way. And since 2015, the front derailleur operation of Campy is such that there's a safety stop built in to the shift from the big ring to the small, so even though you can slam the shift from big ring to small it will shift immediately but won't go all the way inward, which could tend to "throw" the chain over the small ring in a violent exchange of exuberance. It leaves one easy trim position to get to the biggest 3 or so cogs with no rubbing. It's quite brilliant really. But even if I wasn't running an SRM, I would still use the chain catcher as I've just gotten used to them. It can't hurt and gone are the days where you can feather the chain back on if it does fall off the inside, and as we all know... shit happens. I do have it set very close to the chain, like a piece of paper's worth of clearance (way less than a credit card for example, and less that 0.5mm). I have seen cases where the chain catcher ins't close enough or tightly mounted enough that if there's enough of a gap just to even start a wedgy effect with the chain, and it's at all loose, that the chain can force itself through anyway, then you're in a world of bother as you have to get it back through the tight gap. You are definitely getting off the bike at that point.

Ok, back to @3Pio's build, my coffee break is complete.

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:51 pm
by themidge
Thanks for the explanation :D. I'm still on 10 speed and don't have a power meter let alone an SRM so I guess I'll use a chain catcher when my setup demands it. Mind you, I want to put a downtube shifter on my modern carbon frame for the minor weight savings and added coolness, so I probably won't reach that stage.

CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:12 pm
by Calnago
@themidge... I have very high hopes for you.

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:35 pm
by 3Pio
Few days of pause from my second build..


Some of them skiing days, some of them post skiing Back Pain problems (hope it wont happend again as many years ago when i had herniated disk, result from MTB ing...)


Today i done a good clean to C60 Frameset (still cant believe it how much sand was everywhere), and do some weight measuring..

Before i continue, let's share some battle scares from 20500 km i have on this frameset....

Unfortunately, when i build it back in 2016, i installed, but let adjusting of FD to someone else (and Colnago chain catcher)... Result, dropped chain, and damaged paint in BB area. I used nail polish to cover it, so this is now battle scar (no structure paint, just scratched paint):

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Lesson learned, so after that i take care about adjusting, and definetely ill put other chain catcher after discussion we had on that. Colnago chain catcher wil be just temporary.


Cutted fork:

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NonCutted fork weight:

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Cutted part of the stereer:

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And comparation of cutted parts of stereer (longer is C60, shorter is from CAAD12 fork):

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Seem that CAAD12 fork is a bit lighter (around 10 gm)

Fork Expander:

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Now time for frame weight (bearings installed in headset, BB Cups pressed in the Frame, No Bottle Cage Bolts, No Cable Guide, but deral. hanger included, and No Seatpost collar):

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And using different scale (one with Seatpost collar, one without):

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Seatpost collar:


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And just to be able to compare to CAAD12 weight, weight of BB Cups (i have spare that i measured):

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Bottle Cage bolts:

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Headset spacers:

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So CAAD12 frame was 1064 gm, but with Seatpost collar, Bottle Cage bolts, and deral hanger. The headset bearings and small headset cap was 53 gm so in total 1117 gm

C60 frame is 1194 gm+ headset spacers 2 gm - BB cups 38 gm+seatpost collar 25 gm = 1183 gm

So difference between C60 and CAAD12 is 66 gm

Interesting that BB30A cups are 60 gm, while BB86 version is 38, so 22 gm difference between them


Headset cover:

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Top Cap + bolt:

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Tune Spacers (2 mm, 5 mm, 10mm, 15mm):

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Lets continue with bottle cages (62 gm):

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Those are heavy and if i compare to Aliexpress Carbon Cages i put on CAAD12 (18 gm per cage, 36 gm both), there is 26 gm weight difference (at least i know i can save 26 gm for cheap).

And Cable guide including some liners:

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BTW, does cable guide have some orientation? (since is not simetrical).. Which side goes front, which rear?

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:00 pm
by PokojniToza
I see you've painted the frame. It is no longer mud red:)

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:01 pm
by 3Pio
PokojniToza wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:00 pm
I see you've painted the frame. It is no longer mud red:)
And lost at least 300 gm in the process :) (Hope Colnago will stay longer clean, now when i have caad12)

Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:09 pm
by 3Pio
Ok, lets install fork, and headset caps..

Before i was using Lithium Grease from Motorex.. I noticed after longer period, specially in fork/frame contact this grease was become solid..

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So this time im definetely ussing Morgan Blue Campa grease for assembly, and specially for this part:


Few steps of fork assemblty to frame:
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Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:22 pm
by 3Pio
Now let's install the rear deral to the frame...

I'll repeat this pic just for easier following the weight of the parts i build here:

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Im using same Record 2015+ on both bikes (old one on Caad12, brand new on C60).. Even they are same model, i noticed difference..

On Brand new , there is more tooth:

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This is old one (tooth just on one side):

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So seem there is some small redesign...


On rear deral i cant notice any loctite, so i put few drops of Loctite 243 and installed...


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Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:33 pm
by 3Pio
For now, i'll use Fizik Cyrano R1 Stem (-7 deg, 110mm). Im very satisfied from this stem, very stiff, light, good looking:

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And last to install Bottle cages.. I'll put some Morgan Blue Aqua Proof paste on the bolts (to avoid and seizeing):

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Done:

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Cant believe it how good looking is this colour when is clean :)

Yeah, look like i repainted the frame since it was not clean like this long time this period of year..

But i have a choice to ride or to clean. And i pick to ride :) Because instead of just cosmetic clean, whenever i clean my bike i do detailed cleaning (which is time consuming), but include detailed chain cleaning in degreaser (chain off the bike), cassette... I do this every 500-1000 km... And some less detailed chain/cassette cleaning more often...

Result

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Re: CAAD12 Campagnolo Groupset and Colnago C60 Campagnolo builds...

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:33 pm
by Weenie